B-24 question

Travisd80elcam · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:43 pm

this may or may not have been posted. I searched the site and didnt find anything. i stumbled onto a website listing surviving b-24's and it lists two as being derlict at Belem, is this true? " B-24D (s/n 40-2367) is a derelict after making a forced landing in Bechevin Bay, Atka, AK.[37]
B-24J (s/n 42-51430) Tulsamerican crashed into the Adriatic Sea near Croatia on December 17, 1944 . Its wreck was discovered on March 2010. She was the last B-24 Liberator to come off the assembly line at the old Douglas aircraft plant in Tulsa.[38]
B-24M (s/n 44-42067) is a derelict at Belem.[39]
B-24M (s/n 44-50801) was scrapped after being withdrawn from use and broken up in La Paz, Bolivia.[40]
PB4Y-2 (BuNo 59695) crashed into Lake Washington on August 26, 1956.[41]
PB4Y-2 (BuNo 59754) ditched and sank in Diamond Lake, Oregon on July 27, 1970.[42]
PB4Y-2 (BuNo 59763) crashed near Safford, AZ in 1974 and reported destroyed.[43]
PB4Y-2 (BuNo 59905) crashed on the runway in Wenatchee, WA on September 1972.[44]
PB4Y-2 (BuNo 60001) is a derlict in Belem.[45]
PB4Y-2 (BuNo 66260) was destroyed when aircraft broke up in flight on July 2002.[46]
PB4Y-2 (BuNo 66304) crashed on take-off in Ramona, CA on August 27, 1980.[47]" . heres the website http://www.enotes.com/topic/List_of_sur ... Liberators

thanks Travis

gary1954 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:11 pm

Back years ago when I read air classics maggotzine (refuse to read ANY challenge publication since 1976) I read an article of a B-24 that had been discovered in a lake here in the US, I want to say to was in the western region of the country. This B-24 was on a training mission and encountered IFR weather below them the pilot flew around for a while while some of the crew looked below the plane through the bomb bay section with the doors opened and found a break where he let down. with fuel running out the crew may have saw what may have appeared to him to be a snow covered field but actually belly landed on a snow covered frozen lake. The bombers tail from aft of the bomb bay section flipped over the main fuselage and back into the water. It sunk quickly with (IIRCC) no survivors. It wasn't discovered until the lake had gone down so far that the verticle stabilizers protruded the surface and peeked the curiosity of the locals. The remains of the tailgunner were still in the turret (don't know about the rest of the crew). I have often wanted to be able to recall the location of this find, and what ever became of the remains of the aircraft and crew, but it was now a long time ago that I read the article. I know it wasn't in Alaska, but do recall that it was west of Texas, which really narrows it down now don't it.
Well thats all I have to add.....Bueller? .......Bueller?

The Inspector · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:19 pm

That B-24 was in a watershed storage lake in central California (forget where exactly) and was discovered when they lowered the water level to make some improvements, finding it solved the mystery and I believe that at least two sets of remains were recovered and returned to families.
Atka Island is the next large-ish Island in the chain East of Adak between Adak and Unalaska so it's closer to Beijing than Los Angeles.

Dan K · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:39 pm

Travisd80elcam wrote:

B-24M (s/n 44-42067) is a derelict at Belem.[39]

B-24M-15-CO (44-42067), PB4Y-1P (BuNo 90232), licensed with Frigopar in 1969 as PT-AZX, reported derelict in Belem, Brazil in 1975

I believe you will find some additional history here, but I'm not fluent in Spanish (Portuguese?).

http://forum.aeroentusiasta.com.br/view ... 13&t=29511

Here are a few vintage online pics of her with Frigopar:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/0995458/

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/230/ ... apn400.jpg

aerovin · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:23 am

gary1954 wrote:

Back years ago when I read air classics maggotzine (refuse to read ANY challenge publication since 1976) I read an article of a B-24 that had been discovered in a lake here in the US, I want to say to was in the western region of the country. This B-24 was on a training mission and encountered IFR weather below them the pilot flew around for a while while some of the crew looked below the plane through the bomb bay section with the doors opened and found a break where he let down. with fuel running out the crew may have saw what may have appeared to him to be a snow covered field but actually belly landed on a snow covered frozen lake. The bombers tail from aft of the bomb bay section flipped over the main fuselage and back into the water. It sunk quickly with (IIRCC) no survivors. It wasn't discovered until the lake had gone down so far that the verticle stabilizers protruded the surface and peeked the curiosity of the locals. The remains of the tailgunner were still in the turret (don't know about the rest of the crew). I have often wanted to be able to recall the location of this find, and what ever became of the remains of the aircraft and crew, but it was now a long time ago that I read the article. I know it wasn't in Alaska, but do recall that it was west of Texas, which really narrows it down now don't it.
Well thats all I have to add.....Bueller? .......Bueller?

I believe this was the Huntington Lake (eastern Sierras of central California) B-24. I saw one of the wing sections, complete, at the Aero Nostalgia facility at Stockton in the 1980s...I have a photos somewhere. It still had the OD/Gray paint and the BF Goodrich tires were still inflated. Not sure where it ended up.

The Inspector · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:21 am

BUNO 59695 is still in Lake Washington off the old Sand Point NAS. It was located a few years ago and sidescan radar pictures (?) of it have been published, aside from missing one engine (#3 I believe) which is also in the picture, it looks to be in fairly good shape being in a snowmelt fed cold water deep lake. There's a fair amount of Navy stuff still in Lake Washington.

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:57 am

The B-24 that is on Atka is going to remain where it is at. A few years ago I was co-ordinating with a museum to recover it. The proper paperwork was filed with the appropriate government offices and after I had a couple meetings with the museums board members and shared the information about the paperwork with the government, I didn't hear anything from the museum for a couple weeks, couldn't get a phone call returned or an e-mail answered. Finally I called one of the members of the museum at his day job and he informed me that the museum took the information I provided (while under the premise we were working together) and decided to try a recovery attempt on their own. I called the government office and the lady in charge stated " you contacted this office first, you submitted a recovery proposal first, I can see what they (the museum) are trying to do. Re-do your proposal and send it to me". I re-did the proposal in a matter of a few days and sent it to the government office. The lady at the government office said that her office talked to locals who were not against the recovery. The lady at the government office took my revised proposal (the one without the museum being a part of) and said " This office needs to see verification that you have secured funding for the recovery, if you have funding ownership will transferred to you. If you do not have the funding the aircraft will stay were it's at." Well, I didn't have $100k-$150k just sitting around, so the plane is still there. Maybe if the museum would not have greedy the B-24 could be well on it's way to being restored.

TonyM · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:25 am

gary1954 wrote:

Back years ago when I read air classics maggotzine (refuse to read ANY challenge publication since 1976) I read an article of a B-24 that had been discovered in a lake here in the US, I want to say to was in the western region of the country. This B-24 was on a training mission and encountered IFR weather below them the pilot flew around for a while while some of the crew looked below the plane through the bomb bay section with the doors opened and found a break where he let down. with fuel running out the crew may have saw what may have appeared to him to be a snow covered field but actually belly landed on a snow covered frozen lake. The bombers tail from aft of the bomb bay section flipped over the main fuselage and back into the water. It sunk quickly with (IIRCC) no survivors. It wasn't discovered until the lake had gone down so far that the verticle stabilizers protruded the surface and peeked the curiosity of the locals. The remains of the tailgunner were still in the turret (don't know about the rest of the crew). Well thats all I have to add.....Bueller? .......Bueller?

A detailed summary of this accident appears in my book.

The B-24 crashed into Huntington Lake on 6 Dec 1943. Six were killed and two had parachuted to safety. Huntington Lake was drained and the airplane was discovered on 25 Sept 1955. Not likely that the gunner was found in the turret-- the pilot had ordered the crew to abandon ship. The men were preparing to bail out but only two were able to get out. The pilot put the plane down on the surface of the lake. This aircraft had been searching for a B-24 that had went missing the day before. That airplane was not discovered until 1960.

See Volume Two, Page 606-608 of
FATAL ARMY AIR FORCES AVIATION ACCIDENTS
IN THE UNITED STATES, 1941-1945

the330thbg · **Joined:** Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm **Posts:** 2713

cooper9411 wrote:

The B-24 that is on Atka is going to remain where it is at. A few years ago I was co-ordinating with a museum to recover it. The proper paperwork was filed with the appropriate government offices and after I had a couple meetings with the museums board members and shared the information about the paperwork with the government, I didn't hear anything from the museum for a couple weeks, couldn't get a phone call returned or an e-mail answered. Finally I called one of the members of the museum at his day job and he informed me that the museum took the information I provided (while under the premise we were working together) and decided to try a recovery attempt on their own. I called the government office and the lady in charge stated " you contacted this office first, you submitted a recovery proposal first, I can see what they (the museum) are trying to do. Re-do your proposal and send it to me". I re-did the proposal in a matter of a few days and sent it to the government office. The lady at the government office said that her office talked to locals who were not against the recovery. The lady at the government office took my revised proposal (the one without the museum being a part of) and said " This office needs to see verification that you have secured funding for the recovery, if you have funding ownership will transferred to you. If you do not have the funding the aircraft will stay were it's at." Well, I didn't have $100k-$150k just sitting around, so the plane is still there. Maybe if the museum would not have greedy the B-24 could be well on it's way to being restored.

Wow.., what a load of Kcrap!!!.., how miffed were you on that deal?

Good grief :shock:

Django · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:41 am

cooper9411 wrote:

...Well, I didn't have $100k-$150k just sitting around, so the plane is still there. Maybe if the museum would not have greedy the B-24 could be well on it's way to being restored.

Surely there is someone else who would be willing to fund that!

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:07 pm

Yeah exactly what a load of crap. After I spent $ on very long distance phone calls, travel, and time. I've been trying to find someone who would want to fund the recovery. There are quite a few stipulations that have to be abided by in order for recovery. No motorized vehicles are allowed on the island, they want the landscape preserved without damage. As far as I was concerned I'm glad the plane was left where at. Then there was talk of the plane staying within the confines of Alaska because it is such a historical significance. The ban on recovery was put in place after Ted (we all who Ted is) got what he wanted and started a "museum". :drinkers:

If anyone knows of someone who would want to fund this, pass along this information and hopefully we can salvage what is left of the this war veteran.

Travisd80elcam · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:40 pm

I wish that someone could get the one in Alaska. I've been looking at Photo's of it for a long time wishing someone or a museum would be able to one day get it and at least restore it for a static but would love to see it fly. Is there any photo's out there of the Lake Washington B-24? And isn't there a few in Papua New Guinea? I've seen on PacificWrecks where there are a few that could also be a good basis for a build. I think I even remember finding a wreck that there was a good usable set of wings.Also I found a webpage Questmasters.us and it was stated on there that there was a b-24 wreck in Canada. Any thoughts? And thanks for the replies I thought this was the rite place to ask.

Travis

The Inspector · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:47 pm

http://www.pugetsounddivers.com for video footage and http://www.boydski.com for several still color photos of the aircraft
or do what I did (took nearly three seconds) put-- side scan radar images of Navy PB4Y in Lake Washington into GOOGLE

Travisd80elcam · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:57 pm

The Inspector, i searched after you posted the link. Here is another link i found with a few more interesting aircraft as well http://www.nwrain.net/~newtsuit/recover ... lkwash.htm there is even a Harpoon in there that I'm Sure that Taigh would love to get his hands on. It and the PB4Y is in great shape from the photos on the above listed websites.

The Inspector · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:36 pm

Is that the video where as the diver swims away, he gives the tail wheel a spin and it turns like it was greased yesterday?

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