WW2 fighter pilot says "no" to warbirds

[Ploesti]

I was sent an e-mail from a friend and fellow pilot who has a relative who was a WW2 USAAF fighter pilot. Not to mention his name, but he stated in conversations that he and many of his fellow comrads who survived the war and are still alive couldn't care less about the restoration and preservation of WW2 aircraft. he stated that many of his comrads would have rather have seen all WW2 aircraft destroyed. I'm sure I could come up with many reasons why this fellow had rational reasons to feel that way. The way I see it, many, many WW2 pilots and crew saw WW2 as an absolute nightmare and that anything that could remind them of that was evil. I'm also sure that many, many WW2 pilots and air crew really didn't have military aviation as a goal or interest back then as many of us do today. What we find interesting could be seen as annoying or offensive to others who could care less about WW2 history. Just a thought.

Last edited by Ploesti on Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[cco23i]

I know ALL the WW2 AAF ground crews I have talked to are HAPPY people preserved the warbirds.

Scott

[Ploesti]

Don't get me wrong, I'm on your side, just telling what I'm given. But I think an open mind might be of interest here. and it's only conversation and that's all it is.

[The Inspector]

There have been veterans who wanted to climb up into 'GRUMPY' @ HFF but as soon as they bend over to get in the forward fuselage, apparently all the demons and monsters and terrors from of the past come out and they can't do it.

[Ploesti]

My dad used to say " what's the big deal" at Oshkosh. he was a Navy Hellcat pilot, when me saw a Hellcat.

[b29flteng]

My Dads pilot, my Dad was a crew chief on a Tac Recon P-51, never flew again in anything after the war including as a passenger. He always drove or took the train somewhere. He was awarded the Silver Star for one mission he flew during the war. I built a model of his plane and presented it to him at a reunion and his wife wrote me a few months later saying it was one of his prize possesions and started to talk about the war to his family. Some of these folks went through some harrowing things and wanted to distance themselves from those experiences.

[L2Driver]

You could poll vets from any war in any branch and get the same range of opinions on restoring/operating 'their' old equipment. The original post of this thread simply falls to one side of the bell curve. I'm sure you can find another pilot who's delighted that these aircraft are still flying.

I feel for the guy. The psychlogical counseling available to today's soldiers (as good/bad as it is) is lightyears ahead of the (non-existent) care given to vets of past wars.

[fritzthefox]

I'm a member of a local EAA Warbirds chapter. We frequently host the EAA's B-17 when she comes to town to give rides. Most of the members are tripping over themselves to get a seat whenever possible. The vets obviously get first dibs. When offered a ride in the B-17, one of our members, a tail gunner from WWII, said, "Why the HELL would I ever want to get back in one of THOSE things?" His feelings are not unique. My father-in-law served as a dust-off medic in Nam, and he still won't get in a helicopter.

It DOES give many veterans joy to see these planes again, and their arrivals are often the locus of reunions for old friends who served together. But it is interesting to measure the perception of wartime vets against the enthusiasm of those who did not see combat. The wartime vets do not consider themselves heroes, but many other vets and civilians worship them. The wartime vets often cry when they relate their tales of friends lost, or prefer not to speak at all. They speak badly of leaders whom Hollywood makes into heroes today. And, most relevant, they loved their favorite planes, not for the mission they accomplished, but for getting them home again.

The combat vets know what warbirds were for, and sometimes the memories they bring back are painful ones. It doesn't mean we should hide the planes under a tarp, but I think it would be good if we remained mindful of what they cost. War should never be a reason for celebration.

The fetishization of warbirds falls into a weird grey area in that regard. It is, in many ways, similar to jousting: the tools of war turned into a public display for our entertainment. I am often not sure how I feel about it myself.

But I'm normally first in line for that B-17. Boys will be boys, I guess.

[TonyM]

Not surprising Ploesti.
My grandfather on my father's side served in the Second World War. He hated it.
He did not want to talk about the war.
He saw some rough stuff.
I don't think he ever really got over it.

many of his fellow comrads who survived the war and/where, are still alive could care less about the restoration and preservation of WW2 aircraft. .

By the way:
I think the correct phrase is "couldn't care less" rather than the non-sensical "could care less."

TonyM

[Ploesti]

By the way:
I think the correct phrase is "couldn't care less" rather than the non-sensical "could care less."

TonyM

oops fixed, your right on that one.

[ZRX61]

It's just an opinion, everyone has them. There is no right or wrong, you are free to agree with them or to differ. It doesn't change anything in the grand scheme of things.

[Fearless Tower]

There have been veterans who wanted to climb up into 'GRUMPY' @ HFF but as soon as they bend over to get in the forward fuselage, apparently all the demons and monsters and terrors from of the past come out and they can't do it.

Everybody handles the stress and trauma differently. I've seen lots of vets that were able to put the tragedy of war behind them and just hold on to positive memories. I've also seen people who are plagued by the demons as you describe.

I saw alot of it first hand after the COLE bombing when I was a new ENSIGN about DONALD COOK (DDG-75). We were part of the response and all of the ships present hosted many of the COLE sailors aboard for overnights to get them a chance to get rest in an actual rack instead of on the flight deck. Many of the sailors who came to us found it very difficult to sleep onboard or spend anytime below deck. Some couldn't even go anywhere near our messdecks (we were an identical sister ship to COLE). The sailors who went to the other (non-sister) ships didn't experience the same reactions.

[Mudge]

I have a cousin who flew Navy in 'Nam. Crash landed his Skyraider. To the day he passed, he wouldn't get in an airplane.
I, on the other hand, am acrophobic. I won't get over three steps high on a ladder but flying a plane or riding in one, doesn't bother me a bit.

Mudge the fearless

[Pat Carry]

I was sent an e-mail from a friend and fellow pilot who has a relative who was a WW2 USAAF fighter pilot. Not to mention his name, but he stated in conversations that he and many of his fellow comrads who survived the war and are still alive couldn't care less about the restoration and preservation of WW2 aircraft. he stated that many of his comrads would have rather have seen all WW2 aircraft destroyed. I'm sure I could come up with many reasons why this fellow had rational reasons to feel that way. The way I see it, many, many WW2 pilots and crew saw WW2 as an absolute nightmare and that anything that could remind them of that was evil. I'm also sure that many, many WW2 pilots and air crew really didn't have military aviation as a goal or interest back then as many of us do today. What we find interesting could be seen as annoying or offensive to others who could care less about WW2 history. Just a thought.

War is a terrible thing. The men who served saw horrible things and had great buddies killed right in front of their eyes. I cant even imagine how hard it was and still is dealing with memories like that. Anything that conjers up those memories I'm sure they would just as soon do without. On the other hand as others here have already pointed out, there are veterans who are ticlked to death about taking a flight in a B-17, B-24, B-25, etc. How many veterans have flown in the Collings fleet over the years. I would guess a few thousand. Differences in opinion make the world go round!

[Dan Jones]

Granted this was about twenty years ago, but I spent an afternoon with an old guy sitting in the office at the waterbase, drinking coffee, waiting for the weather to break so I could fly him out to a fishing lodge. We started talking about the lousy weather, and flying in it, and flying instruments, and he eventually got around to telling me that he had flown B-17's in England, and about the first generation instrument approaches. When we got talking about his wartime flying he had no problems talking about it but seemed genuinely surprised that anyone was interested in hearing about it. He said "Nobody's ever asked me about it before - you're sure your interested in this?" The longer he talked the more he talked, and you could almost see the years and times peeling away as he started discussing things that I don't think he'd even thought about in a long time. He was a nice guy, and I think he enjoyed talking about it "driver-to-driver" almost as much as I enjoyed hearing about it.