Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:53 pm
John Mohr puts on what is probably the best and most impressive airshow performance I've seen. I'll walk away from whatever I'm doing at an airshow to watch him.
But I do have a personal Stearman story. A friend restored several of them, and I saw a couple of the projects as they were underway. The work left something to be desired, quite frankly. My friend was the trusting type and his restoration guys cut quite a few corners from what I saw.
So one day I was at the airport and my friend (knowing that I drool over Stearmans) said "If you want to go for a ride, hop in." I'd barely sat down when he started the engine and we began taxiing. I was still struggling with the unfamiliar-to-me harness system, and didn't understand that he had a PTT installed on the intercom, so I couldn't talk with him to straighten things out.
Then I noticed the tach. 4 hours. This was to be a test flight of a newly restored airframe and engine with a total of 4 hours. Oh boy.
But a minute or two later, rumble, rumble, rumble and off we went. The wings held on, the engine ran, and the Stearman did what airplanes do. We flew around like that for 5 or 10 minutes.
And then the nose dropped, speed built, and up the nose came for a loop. I wasn't really briefed or comfortable with that, but hoped the wings would stay on. And they did. But when the loop turned into a Cuban 8, with an inverted downline, it got interesting. I got very light in the seat and wasn't sure I was gonna stay in the airplane! I made a lunge for the fuselage tubes and got a good grip on them. I had a pretty tight hold on the seat cushion too! Apparently, I was strapped in correctly, so between the harness and my panic grabs, I stayed in the airplane. A few rolls and loops later, he turned the controls over to me.
The airplane flew exactly as I expected. Very smooth controls but the airplane responded fairly slowly to control inputs. I did some lazy 8's, steep turns, etc. to get a feel for the airplane and then we returned to the field and landed.
Neat flight, but I learned a lot about the need to screen "free airplane rides" and get a good briefing before flying with someone else. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have signed up for *that* ride with only 4 hours on the tach if I'd known the score.
But I do have a personal Stearman story. A friend restored several of them, and I saw a couple of the projects as they were underway. The work left something to be desired, quite frankly. My friend was the trusting type and his restoration guys cut quite a few corners from what I saw.
So one day I was at the airport and my friend (knowing that I drool over Stearmans) said "If you want to go for a ride, hop in." I'd barely sat down when he started the engine and we began taxiing. I was still struggling with the unfamiliar-to-me harness system, and didn't understand that he had a PTT installed on the intercom, so I couldn't talk with him to straighten things out.
Then I noticed the tach. 4 hours. This was to be a test flight of a newly restored airframe and engine with a total of 4 hours. Oh boy.
But a minute or two later, rumble, rumble, rumble and off we went. The wings held on, the engine ran, and the Stearman did what airplanes do. We flew around like that for 5 or 10 minutes.
And then the nose dropped, speed built, and up the nose came for a loop. I wasn't really briefed or comfortable with that, but hoped the wings would stay on. And they did. But when the loop turned into a Cuban 8, with an inverted downline, it got interesting. I got very light in the seat and wasn't sure I was gonna stay in the airplane! I made a lunge for the fuselage tubes and got a good grip on them. I had a pretty tight hold on the seat cushion too! Apparently, I was strapped in correctly, so between the harness and my panic grabs, I stayed in the airplane. A few rolls and loops later, he turned the controls over to me.
The airplane flew exactly as I expected. Very smooth controls but the airplane responded fairly slowly to control inputs. I did some lazy 8's, steep turns, etc. to get a feel for the airplane and then we returned to the field and landed.
Neat flight, but I learned a lot about the need to screen "free airplane rides" and get a good briefing before flying with someone else. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have signed up for *that* ride with only 4 hours on the tach if I'd known the score.
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:27 am
Hi Scott,
This was my experiance with flying a Stearman.
I borrowed one a few years ago. I had heard all of the storys about them, the guys that have them, love them! Some of the guys that don't have them hate them. I was in K-town and it was a newly restored PT-17. The goal of the day was three touch and goes, the engine started fine, and was easy to taxi. After the run up and a clearance for take off, I took Runway 14. As I brought the power up, I followed the three rules of a tail dragger 1; Keep it straight 2; Keep it straight 3; Keep it straight. I pushed the stick forward, got it up on the mains and flew it off. I found it heavy in all three axis, as a local would say, "it's like the stick is stuck in a bucket of paint". So I push it around the sky, one thing I kinda didn't expect, is how slow the engine turns. It's been awhile but in cruise, or at least in the pattern it would only turn 1800 rpms. This is fine and it didn't bother me, it's just slower than I expected. But back to the story... I got to pattern altitude on down wind, got a clearance to t and go, turn base, turn final all is great. Coming in on short final, just over the numbers, perfect stabilized approch and then I pull off the power and it all goes BAD. You could feel the plane slow down and then I hit! I wheel landed it and it was all over the place, side to side and up and down. I rolled out, got myself ready, pushed the throttle up and tried it again. Same problem on the 2nd and 3rd landing. I would have a great approch and when I would pull off the throttle, I would dam near loose it. I put it away and thought "that's way to much of a work out to go fly". I have since talked to other Stearman lovers and they have given me some insight to my troubles.
So that's my Stearman story!
Bill Tromblay
This was my experiance with flying a Stearman.
I borrowed one a few years ago. I had heard all of the storys about them, the guys that have them, love them! Some of the guys that don't have them hate them. I was in K-town and it was a newly restored PT-17. The goal of the day was three touch and goes, the engine started fine, and was easy to taxi. After the run up and a clearance for take off, I took Runway 14. As I brought the power up, I followed the three rules of a tail dragger 1; Keep it straight 2; Keep it straight 3; Keep it straight. I pushed the stick forward, got it up on the mains and flew it off. I found it heavy in all three axis, as a local would say, "it's like the stick is stuck in a bucket of paint". So I push it around the sky, one thing I kinda didn't expect, is how slow the engine turns. It's been awhile but in cruise, or at least in the pattern it would only turn 1800 rpms. This is fine and it didn't bother me, it's just slower than I expected. But back to the story... I got to pattern altitude on down wind, got a clearance to t and go, turn base, turn final all is great. Coming in on short final, just over the numbers, perfect stabilized approch and then I pull off the power and it all goes BAD. You could feel the plane slow down and then I hit! I wheel landed it and it was all over the place, side to side and up and down. I rolled out, got myself ready, pushed the throttle up and tried it again. Same problem on the 2nd and 3rd landing. I would have a great approch and when I would pull off the throttle, I would dam near loose it. I put it away and thought "that's way to much of a work out to go fly". I have since talked to other Stearman lovers and they have given me some insight to my troubles.
So that's my Stearman story!
Bill Tromblay
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:26 am
And even after sixty or seventy years they're still tougher than h-ll. About ten years ago I was doing circuits with mine one evening at a controlled airport where I used to live. I came down final all nice and stable planning to do a neat, three pointer right at the 500' hash marks. Down final we came, over the numbers, bleeding the power off, pre-occupied with thoughts of how cool I must look, aiming to hit the idle stop, full aft stick, and the runway simultaneously...
I made two out of three.
At about the time the throttle got closed and the stick hit the aft stop she definitely quit flying, and in the perfect three point attitude, and had it not been for the seven or eight feet still to go to the runway it would have been great, but... I can tell you from personal experience that when you lay a Stearman into the pavement, fully stalled from seven or eight feet up, it will actually make the "CLANG!" sound - I mean literally! I know I was high enough for the left wing to begin to drop before we hit. My buddy Don in the tower, owner of a cute, little Taylorcraft, said over the radio with masterful understatement, "That looked interesting..."
With my proverbial tail between my legs I taxied back to the yard and for all the next day in the hangar I went through and through that airplane, looking inside the wings for broken glue joints, looking over the gear, the engine mount, looking for sagging fabric, looking for any little tell-tale signs of something being bent, and... nothing - not one single thing has ever showed itself even ten years later. She blew that landing off like she'd done it a hundred times (and probably has), but had that been anything else other than maybe an F6F, I'd have driven the gear through the wings!
Find an airplane (prices are down right now) and get a good instructor, and you are guaranteed to have the time of your life. I love mine so much I'm restoring a second one.
Dan
I made two out of three.
At about the time the throttle got closed and the stick hit the aft stop she definitely quit flying, and in the perfect three point attitude, and had it not been for the seven or eight feet still to go to the runway it would have been great, but... I can tell you from personal experience that when you lay a Stearman into the pavement, fully stalled from seven or eight feet up, it will actually make the "CLANG!" sound - I mean literally! I know I was high enough for the left wing to begin to drop before we hit. My buddy Don in the tower, owner of a cute, little Taylorcraft, said over the radio with masterful understatement, "That looked interesting..."
With my proverbial tail between my legs I taxied back to the yard and for all the next day in the hangar I went through and through that airplane, looking inside the wings for broken glue joints, looking over the gear, the engine mount, looking for sagging fabric, looking for any little tell-tale signs of something being bent, and... nothing - not one single thing has ever showed itself even ten years later. She blew that landing off like she'd done it a hundred times (and probably has), but had that been anything else other than maybe an F6F, I'd have driven the gear through the wings!
Find an airplane (prices are down right now) and get a good instructor, and you are guaranteed to have the time of your life. I love mine so much I'm restoring a second one.
Dan
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:47 am
The Stearman rewards an attentive pilot and bites the sloppy/overconfident one.... and it doesn't really matter how many hours you have in the airplane... you have to be on your toes all the time. For my two cents: I fly all my approaches power off, out of a tight downwind spacing using a curvilinear final turn... just easier to manage the energy that way. Energy management is a key skill as is speed control... the folks I checkout in the airplane remember a couple of phrases.... 75 (it climbs and glides at 75), drive it in (you drive it in all the way to the flare point, don't check your descent high--- 8' is high), and pin the wheels (most issues with directional control I've seen derive from the stick being held neutral/slightly aft), and fly the airplane until you kill the engine (fly that tail down!). The 3 point landing setup is no different from the wheel landing... you just hold it off longer and a little more aggressively.... I actually prefer a wheel landing in just about all circumstances... but that's me. The video I linked to was shot as part of a project I'm working on about how to fly the Stearman in the pattern... taxi, takeoff, climbs, downwind- spacing/ dealing with winds, the perch (for me that is the beginning of the final turn), slips if needed, lineup, flare point, flare, landing roll... all of that.... most of that is in the video, but this one is too short to be an instructional vid, it was just fun looking so I put it together... still working on it....
The controls are well harmonized... but it takes effort and does nothing fast.... I think the word that sums up flying the airplane is 'Languid' (slow and relaxed).... done right everything is slow and smooth... done wrong and everything seems to speed up in a blur.
The Stearman is the strongest airplane built in WWII... +9g and -11g... all for the student landings... it is incredibly strong and probably the reason so many Dusters survived off airport landings. I've had the dubious honor of test most of the edges of the envelope in the airplane... I'm no John Mohr, but I really do love it... it is fun flying... just plane fun<g>.....
YMMV,
gunny
The controls are well harmonized... but it takes effort and does nothing fast.... I think the word that sums up flying the airplane is 'Languid' (slow and relaxed).... done right everything is slow and smooth... done wrong and everything seems to speed up in a blur.
The Stearman is the strongest airplane built in WWII... +9g and -11g... all for the student landings... it is incredibly strong and probably the reason so many Dusters survived off airport landings. I've had the dubious honor of test most of the edges of the envelope in the airplane... I'm no John Mohr, but I really do love it... it is fun flying... just plane fun<g>.....
YMMV,
gunny
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:58 am
a friend, retired airline pilot has 1. he took me up out of the now sleepy wakeman airport & after 14 years in this area i saw things from an entirely different perspective than i've ever seen on the ground, including my then teenage son running out on my deck & mooning us as we buzzed my house. the entire experience was adrenalin beyond belief!! you haven't flown until you've flown open cockpit!! my wix mugshot is in that pampered baby!!!
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:09 am
gunnyperdue wrote:The Stearman rewards an attentive pilot and bites the sloppy/overconfident one.... and it doesn't really matter how many hours you have in the airplane... you have to be on your toes all the time. For my two cents: I fly all my approaches power off, out of a tight downwind spacing using a curvilinear final turn... just easier to manage the energy that way. Energy management is a key skill as is speed control... the folks I checkout in the airplane remember a couple of phrases.... 75 (it climbs and glides at 75), drive it in (you drive it in all the way to the flare point, don't check your descent high--- 8' is high), and pin the wheels (most issues with directional control I've seen derive from the stick being held neutral/slightly aft), and fly the airplane until you kill the engine (fly that tail down!). The 3 point landing setup is no different from the wheel landing... you just hold it off longer and a little more aggressively.... I actually prefer a wheel landing in just about all circumstances... but that's me. The video I linked to was shot as part of a project I'm working on about how to fly the Stearman in the pattern... taxi, takeoff, climbs, downwind- spacing/ dealing with winds, the perch (for me that is the beginning of the final turn), slips if needed, lineup, flare point, flare, landing roll... all of that.... most of that is in the video, but this one is too short to be an instructional vid, it was just fun looking so I put it together... still working on it....
The controls are well harmonized... but it takes effort and does nothing fast.... I think the word that sums up flying the airplane is 'Languid' (slow and relaxed).... done right everything is slow and smooth... done wrong and everything seems to speed up in a blur.
The Stearman is the strongest airplane built in WWII... +9g and -11g... all for the student landings... it is incredibly strong and probably the reason so many Dusters survived off airport landings. I've had the dubious honor of test most of the edges of the envelope in the airplane... I'm no John Mohr, but I really do love it... it is fun flying... just plane fun<g>.....
YMMV,
gunny
Where did you find those G load ratings?
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:35 am
-11G, wonder how you pull that :p I'm having trouble staying awake at -1.5 for longer then a few seconds!
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:21 pm
The ratings come from limit load calculations.... and you don't pull either one not in a Stearman.... but a hard landing you can generate a LOT of g when you drop it in... and its all negative g.
gunny
gunny
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:11 am
Pure joy. 
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:21 am
About three years ago, I'd just finished my tailwheel endorsement, was feeling pretty good about handling a Super Decathlon and Cub. I heard Sarah Wilson was passing through town with her Stearman barnstorming tour so I scheduled some instruction with her. She was as good an instructor as I've ever had, military or civilian, but this airplane really demands positive, correct control inputs as getting behind it ensures you're veering off the runway or ground looping. I made progress in the one hour lesson but it was a humbling experience and very clear getting checked out would take a lot more instruction. That being said, it left me wanting more Stearman flying! Hard to beat this airplane for giving rides, especially to a non-pilot type or otherwise fearful flyer. Great thread topic Scott.
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:17 pm
Yup, I'll have to totally agree with you paul on all counts... I took 5 hrs of instruction from Sarah and loved every moment of it flying the stearman. And it will lull you into your mind wandering and then step up and remind you to whose boss. Positive feedback always required right back to the hangar! Yes, I'd definitely sign up for more. Its definitely a true trainer as if you can take the stearman and do well then you can handle much of what your flying life will throw you as far as WWII era stuff.
And fun... wow, big smiles all the way around. My Son and Daughter really loved their flights with Sarah and still speak of it today, hoping she'll make her way back to WI... Hey scott, maybe we could talk stan into some rides....
And fun... wow, big smiles all the way around. My Son and Daughter really loved their flights with Sarah and still speak of it today, hoping she'll make her way back to WI... Hey scott, maybe we could talk stan into some rides...
.
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:42 pm
Well..... I'm trying to work a deal so we'll have a Stearman in the Museum I'm with as a trainer... more than just rides (we already have that with my airplane). Hopefully I'll have some news for ya'll fairly soon.
gunny
gunny
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:50 pm
I've flown in several, the one that comes to mind is Eddie Andreini's 450HP Super Stearman. If anybody pulled -11g, he did! Just about had my eyeballs in my lap! Lots of fun!
@ Peter A, your Stearman picture looks much like the local area I fly in here around Boise,ID. Do you know where the picture was taken?
@ Peter A, your Stearman picture looks much like the local area I fly in here around Boise,ID. Do you know where the picture was taken?
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:00 am
Mike Halbrook wrote:I've flown in several, the one that comes to mind is Eddie Andreini's 450HP Super Stearman. If anybody pulled -11g, he did! Just about had my eyeballs in my lap! Lots of fun!
@ Peter A, your Stearman picture looks much like the local area I fly in here around Boise,ID. Do you know where the picture was taken?
Mike,
The image were taken at King City Ca, in the Salinas Valley in 1999.
This is a very early 'Lloyd Stearman' example owned by dear friends.
As a low time expired pilot, the opportunities to fly at low level here in the UK are basically zero. To be able to liesurely 'tootle' down a river bed, overseen by a multi thousand hour stick and rudder crop duster pilot...pure joy.
PeterA
Re: Tell Me Your Stearman Story
Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:54 am
PeterA-
When I was stationed at RAF Lakenheath back in the 90's there was a fellow named Jim at Swanton Morely that was restoring Stearman's and there were several there... was fortunate to do some Stearman flying out of SWanton Morely (which by the way was the airfield that supported the first raid by the USAAF on Fortress Europa on July 4, 1942). The whole thing eventually broke up... two or three of those airplanes ended up at another former RAF base south of Norwich as I recall... can't remember the name of the field right now... but one of your TV personalities had a Stearman, a red one, as late as 2005 based at this field... great place, with a restaurant over looking the runways. I think all of that is still there... the USAAF Stearman went to Belgium.... limited opportunity in the UK yes... but some still around... there were a couple of other cool fields as I recall... Headcorn in Kent (an ex Battle of Britain field)... and another just west of London... very clubby atmosphere.... I really liked it there.
gunny
When I was stationed at RAF Lakenheath back in the 90's there was a fellow named Jim at Swanton Morely that was restoring Stearman's and there were several there... was fortunate to do some Stearman flying out of SWanton Morely (which by the way was the airfield that supported the first raid by the USAAF on Fortress Europa on July 4, 1942). The whole thing eventually broke up... two or three of those airplanes ended up at another former RAF base south of Norwich as I recall... can't remember the name of the field right now... but one of your TV personalities had a Stearman, a red one, as late as 2005 based at this field... great place, with a restaurant over looking the runways. I think all of that is still there... the USAAF Stearman went to Belgium.... limited opportunity in the UK yes... but some still around... there were a couple of other cool fields as I recall... Headcorn in Kent (an ex Battle of Britain field)... and another just west of London... very clubby atmosphere.... I really liked it there.
gunny