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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:02 pm 
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I want to start out by saying that my only intention of this post is to try to increase safety in our little corner of the aviation industry. We've lost way too many incredible people this year (1 is too many) and we don't need to lose anyone else. In general, we (warbirds and air show performers) have done a pretty good job of policing ourselves, and I'm afraid if we are not proactive in addressing the incidents and accidents of the 2011 season, the NTSB and the FAA will take care of the policing for us.

I am not here to lecture anyone, I'm just concerned about the general, non-aviation educated, public's reaction and more importantly the regulatory agencies reactions to not only today's tragic events but this year's air show season as a whole. We all agree that this has been the toughest year in recent memory for warbirds and air show performers in general.

I know that at every air show safety is the #1 priority, both of the crews and the spectators. Each year at ICAS there are always safety and other training seminars on all manner of air show and warbird operations both on the ground and in the air. EAA, CAF, AOPA, and many other alphabet groups all host safety and training seminars that do a lot to increase safety and awareness also.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hope that all of us that work on or fly warbirds all take this off season to step back and take a long, hard look at how we're operating these aircraft that we're entrusted with. I don't know a lot of people in this business, but 99.99% of the ones I do know, are good, honest, safe technicians and pilots. Even good people make mistakes, Lord knows I've made my share and I've been blessed that nobody has been injured.

If you're involved in maintaining or flying a warbird in any way, as a paid employee or as a volunteer who cleans the bugs off, try to attend any aviation safety event you can. A simple way that everyone who comes in contact with any airplane can increase safety, is to speak up if you see something that doesn't look right. You don't have to have an FAA certificate in your pocket to know that something is not right. Speak up and tell someone who can confirm whether or not what you found is airworthy or not.

I know that most of us technicians have probably seen this, but it's always a good reminder from our friends at the FAA.

The Dirty Dozen
1. Lack of communication
The exchange of information that conveys meaning between two or more people. Lack of communication often leads to misunderstandings and the results could be catastrophic.

2. Complacency
Self-satisfaction accompanied by a loss of awareness of the dangers. This often happens when doing familiar, repetitive work.

3. Lack of knowledge
Insufficient experience or training in the task-at-hand. It is easy to see how lack of knowledge could lead to an error or an accident. Often lack of assertiveness plays a part because people do not like to admit they do not know something.

4. Distraction
One's attention is drawn away; mental or emotional confusion or disturbance occurs. When working among many people, with frequent work interruptions, or when coping with stress, it is easy to become distracted.

5. Lack of teamwork
Failing to work together to achieve a common goal. Lack of teamwork creates an unhealthy environment in terms of personal dissatisfaction and group disconnect.

6. Fatigue
Weariness from labor or exertion, nervous exhaustion, temporary loss of power to respond. Shift work can have an enormous physical impact, but there are ways to combat fatigue. For example, sleeping and exercising regularly, avoiding complex tasks at the bottom of the circadian rhythm, and asking others to check the work.

7. Lack of resources
Failing to use or acquire the appropriate tools, equipment, information, and procedures for the task-at-hand. Lack of resources or misusing resources has been linked to many accidents or incidents.

8. Pressure
Pushing for something, in spite of opposing odds, or creating a sense of urgency or haste. This factor is most prevalent when deadlines approach or when trying to meet a tight schedule.

9. Lack of assertiveness
Failing to behave in a self-confident manner. Lack of assertiveness has been identified as a link in the chain of events for many accidents.

10. Stress
Mental, emotional, or physical tension, strain, or distress. Stress is not inherently good or bad; how one handles it determines its impact on the individual. Stress is very difficult to measure objectively.

11. Lack of awareness
Failing to be alert or vigilant in observing. Lack of awareness of the work situation or your surroundings often results in error or injury to yourself or others.

12. Norms
Unwritten and, often, unspoken rules about how work is done. Always work according to the instructions. If norm are actually a better way to do things, change the instructions so norms become part of the approved procedures

Again, my goal here is just to help make us all a little safer and to keep those who would like to see all warbirds grounded from getting thier wish.

Ok, let the beatings begin... :roll: :axe:

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:12 pm 
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CrewDawg wrote:
Ok, let the beatings begin... :roll: :axe:


Why a beating??? That was very well put!!! We are all going to need to tighten our belts after this as I've been watching FOX ( I know) and they keep bringing up the fact that it was a WW2 airplane and this will put ALL OF US under a micro scope, thats for sure.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:14 pm 
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Thank you Jeff, I'm just being a litte pessimistic I guess. :?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:29 pm 
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CrewDawg wrote:
Thank you Jeff, I'm just being a litte pessimistic I guess. :?


Well if anyone here gives you a beating, I am sure it would be from someone who has not felt the pain of a loss in this community or has not dealt with the frustrations of trying to keep these aircraft in the air. Its all the same from a L-4 to a P-51, we need to stay together and keep them ALL going................Even Stearmans.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:33 pm 
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Thanks, Bill.....very well outlined and good things to think about and put into practice.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:43 pm 
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What FOX and the talking heads won't discuss is the immense amount of time and resources that goes into a WW2 Airplane (as well as all the others) to keep it airworthy. How about the fact that race aircraft are not stock 65 year old surplus planes that cost $500 to fly away in from the smelter but expensive high performance machines akin to a NASCAR racer. Ill go with what Scott said in another thread and keep the speculation to a minimum.

All that said, I am a huge proponent for safety and I am very sure there will be a lot of changes coming down the pike. Crew Dog that was an excellent post :drink3: I have seen the same breakdowns happen on board ship and in the field (during a former job many years ago) when your list came into play by the numbers to cause a near calamity. Kudos for speaking up with an intelligent and thoughtful post.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:51 pm 
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CrewDawg wrote:
Thank you Jeff, I'm just being a litte pessimistic I guess. :?

I would like to see an analysis of this season put in the context of the last year, 5 years and 10 years so we get an accurate picture.
When we are in the trenches the view might seem different than what it really is.
I'm not saying its been ok. I'm with you, 1 is too many.
These need some sort of context as each area of operation is different than another. Air Racing isn't the same as airshow aerobatics and warbird formation flying at an airshow is different than just going up around the local airport or moving A/C from one airport to another.
Each has its own risks and operation planning that goes with it.
Also you have the various factors- mechanical problems, pilot error, human factors, ect that goes with each incident.

I don't know if we have had a great deal more incidents and accidents or just higher profile ones.

I think too of some positives- Blues stood down when facing a safety issue. The Horsemen went from a 3 ship to a 2 ship. The BBMF grounded its Spitfires on the July 4th weekend. The Liberty Belle emergency resulted in no injuries.

We are going to get bashed here. I hope shows will continue to get insurance and the feds will put this in a context of what this type of operation this tragedy happened in.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:30 pm 
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Even car races have things that can and do go wrong and people get hurt and killed at the tracks...both drivers, crew, and spectators. I do hope people will not skew the facts about this, but it sure looked a little like it's leaning that way, based on the news reports with the stress on the pilot's age and the aircraft's age. I agree that everyone needs to be fiftyseven times more careful now than ever before.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:59 pm 
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On the safety issue. A question....

WHY DON"T ALL ACRO acts wear helmets?

The same for T-6 drivers?

I know some warbird pilots fly on 02, why not more of those?

Mark H

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:35 am 
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P51Mstg wrote:
On the safety issue. A question....

WHY DON"T ALL ACRO acts wear helmets?

The same for T-6 drivers?

I know some warbird pilots fly on 02, why not more of those?

Mark H

Oxygen is not a requirement until you fly for extended periods over 12-15K' (I forget which altitude and it is also time dependent).
It isn't really necessary low to the ground in an airshow environment.
Many small acro A/C don't have room for a helmet, pilots may be restricted in moving their heads, it has mass so it will impact how they handle the g-forces and it is a personal choice.
Any warbird pilot should wear a helmet for protection to the head and also enhanced hearing protection. Its a matter of physics to improve the protection from impact to your head. But it is also a personal choice.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:05 am 
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I never fly without a helmet. I don't care if it looks "uncool" or "messes up my hair", because I know it could potentially save my life. Some examples:
http://www.neha.rotor.com/Safety.aspx
http://www.flightgear.dk/safety.htm

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:16 pm 
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Well put Bill, I think this has been the worst year. I and lots of others have lost friends from these crashes. I wish this year would end and we can learn from all that has happened, and we can make things safer. We don't need none aviation people telling us what to do. We have to find our own solution.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:08 pm 
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Right now, I'm concerned that cities/counties/states may ban aero events.
New Jersey banned after two T-6s collided at Cape May during a race in the late 60s/early 70s.

I hope Reno doesn't do the same.

Yes, there are plenty of remote airfields in the country...but few have the proximity to a destination area like reno that people mightwant to visit and has the necessary hotel rooms.


Example: Moses Lake has a great airfield for racing...but no one wants to go there.

Condolences to all effected.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:37 pm 
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One other thing as we lament on the season-
With the web we have been a witness to accidents all over the world.
For our discussion we need to consider the US accidents.
There have been several in the UK and in France. We all feel these and wish for other outcomes than what has transpired. AS much as those in other countries have an open look at what has gone on in the US.
For this discussion the accidents in the UK and France other places need to be categorized differently. They can't be overlooked in terms of safety, but the FAA shouldn't include what they don't have jurisdiction over.
So these need to be categorized so we can figure out beyond the emotions we are currently feeling how these numbers play out.
If this is a worse then normal for events at airshows or are they just higher profile so they are noticed more.
Losses such as the Liberty Belle aren't airshow related, Accidents that happen under a waiver granted by the FAA defines Airshow Operations.
How many Warbird losses have happened during waivered airspace this season?
How many non-warbird losses during waivered shows?
How many warbird losses outside of airshows? Trainer, fighter, bomber. Maneuvering, LAnding and Take-off.
What pilot error, mechanical or human factors are involved in each.
We may feel all the accidents are the same but we have to filter this info somehow. The info needs to be compared against other years so an educated comparison can be made and we can look at what improvements can be made as well as where the areas of concern are.
Wanting the season to end and just have it go away is an emotion we are going through. Where any safety problems are and how we can make improvements is a goal that we need to achieve.
We either do this in the memory of those that we have lost or we will look back on the warbird movement as a memory.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:09 am 
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Nothing personal here Rich, I have great respect for you. My question wasn't laid out that well and I spent quite a few long days here at Reno...

When we get to the O2 part, I'm more referring to CO posioning than O2 deprivation. With CO, you start running into coordination problems, etc, hence ultimately problems with controlling the aircraft.

For ACRO and helmets, that helmet doesn't fit under the canopy argument to me is like "I don't wear a seatbelt since it wrinkles my clothes"....

This past summer I've seen enough bad flying to last a lifetime (and I don't mean the people who all got kiled either)... In the last week, I've seen a jet team that broke the dead line a bunch of times and over flew the crowd in their act. No names here, but a lot of people I talked to at the show were scared of them, my prediction is they are the next upcoming disaster.

I got to know one respected pilot this summer who just didn't seem to follow what I would call safe procedures.

Oh well, who am I to comment on it...

Mark H

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