12 O'clock high questions

[agent86]

My favorite scene in the movie is the beginning when Dean Jagger rides his bike to the abandoned airstrip and Imagines the bombers starting and taking off.been trying to find this online.is a very emotional and powerful scene.will find and post it one day.check out the the Base Theatre video page of "The war lover .not as good a movie but better combat scenes page 12

Last edited by agent86 on Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

[JohnB]

My guess if the #2 prop were turning on the soundstage, it was not powered by a Wright....electric perhaps?

A running radial would make so much noise the ausio would be useless...not to mentio the safety of a whirling prop, the prop wash and exhaust fumes.

BTW: The guard told off by Geregory Peck in the film was Ken Tobey.
Best known as the Bell 47 pilot in the series, Whirlybirds and as the C-47 pilot in "The Thing from Another World", as the Army pilot with whom John Wayne crashes into the CO's swimming pool in The Wings of Eagles, as a USAF colonel in the film X-15, and finally as an Air Traffic Controller in Airplane!

[The Inspector]

No word on what was spinning the prop but an electric motor sounds about right as the effects guys could tailor the blur to the film speed by cranking on a rheostat, Just found it interesting they would go to those lengths for an effect, now a days it would be some computer nerd cranking on his CGI program.

[Dave Homewood]

I got halfway through the first page of this thread and though "What the hey..." and got out the video and watched the film again. Then came back and read the rest. Great film and some interesting stuff coming out here too. I never realised it was so close to being factual, and that the writers themselves had been 8th Air Force officers, but it makes sense.

Did they guy that Jesse Bishop was based on get awarded his Medal of Honor for the same feat? ie flying home with one hand while trying to control his wounded captain with the other? Very sad and heroic story, and I would not be surprised if it was true.

I have always liked the opening and closing at the old abandoned airfield, and I wonder if this scene may have been inspired by the similar opening at the abandoned airfiled in the excellent British film The Way To The Stars, about an RAF base where a B-17 squadron arrives. It has the same eerie, empty, run-down postwar opening to it, though oddly that film was made while the war was still actually going on.

I think the actors in 12 O'Clock High are great, expecially Dean Jagger and Gary Merrill. Peck is great too, though a few of his speaches tend to sound a little like Zap Brannigan from Futurama.

[Pathfinder]

Just remember that it was a book before it was a movie. Very interesting to see how some of the characters were changed up in the film adaptation. It's been a while since I read it, but I seem to recall that Savage had a girlfriend, and MacIlheney was the scourge of the local female population...a natural born "gunner" I guess...

The opening sequence is just fantastic...but you have to be mindful of the edits. Harvey riding the bike up to the fence is probably in California. Him stepping through the fence and walking thru the weeds is probably in Alabama. There is also a sneaky edit (dissolve)--in the clouds--after the shot goes off of his face as the flight of 17's becomes visible.

I also recall that at the screening of the film Curt LeMAy was asked for a comment. The producers asked if he spotted the "obvious" error. He commented that it was perfect. Their reply was that in actual flight you can't hear the gunfire or doppler-like effect of an approaching and exiting attacking enemy plane. But that's something that we all subconsciously expect to "hear".

[ZeamerB17]

Did they guy that Jesse Bishop was based on get awarded his Medal of Honor for the same feat? ie flying home with one hand while trying to control his wounded captain with the other? Very sad and heroic story, and I would not be surprised if it was true.

John C. "Red" Morgan:

http://www.homeofheroes.com/wings/part2/08_morgan.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Morgan

Truly a Hero.

[Dave Homewood]

I had a look at the Trivia page on the IMDb entry for this film and a few things stuck out to me:

"John Wayne turned down the leading role that later went to Gregory Peck."

Thank goodness, John Wayne was such a ham actor, terrible in fact. He would have ruined this film.

Also:
"A romantic subplot, which features in the book, was dropped at the studio's insistence. They wanted the script to concentrate fully on the psychological effects of war and the theme of leadership."

Great, well done to the studio. These days studios would insist on some romantic love triangle being added to the script rather than cut.

I always cannot help noticing in the big dogfight scenes how many Spitfires the American gunners are firing at, and how the Germans seemed to fly P-47D Thunderbolts before the 8th Air Force got them. Other than those innaccuracies it's a fine film though.

Also what are those wierd looking peaked caps with upturned peaks called that the groundcrew always wear in such B-17 films? Did they start life as normal baseball caps and the peaks are always turned upwards from being shoved into pockets? or were they made in that stange fashion from new?

[Dave Homewood]

John C. "Red" Morgan:

http://www.homeofheroes.com/wings/part2/08_morgan.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Morgan

Truly a Hero.

Wow, that brings a lump to the throat. Very much a true hero. Respect!

[The Inspector]

The upturned visors on the shearling ballcaps were the way gunners wore them sort of a badge of office, just like RAF fighter pilots left the top button undone on their blouses. It was a moral builder and pretty much overlooked by most commanders since for a ceremonial muster, they'd all be wearing either the issue uniform cap or dress hats.

I'm glad the studio passed on Ham on Wayne and picked Peck, he always could make deciding on the soup or a sandwich look like a heavyweight, critical to the fate of the world decision, and when he spoke during a critical scene, his vice sounded like it came from the bowels of the earth. He was still pretty iron jawed and intimidating as the wounded bank robber in Billy Two Hats @ the end of his career.

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks for that explanation The Inspector, I had often wondered why the hats were like that.

[agent86]

Ok,I know I've said it before,but see my post on the War lover on the base theatre video link page and watch the combat scenes and tell me what you think. page 12

[AviaS199]

My favorite scene in the movie is the beginning when Dean Jagger rides his bike to the abandoned airstrip and Imagines the bombers starting and taking off.been trying to find this online.is a very emotional and powerful scene.will find and post it one day.check out the the Base Theatre video page of "The war lover .not as good a movie but better combat scenes page 12

I'm from the government and I'm here to help you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHTXK8Jl ... re=related

[The Inspector]

Wasn't someone a few years ago selling knockoff TOBY Jugs? It seemed he was really proud of them and wanted a really stiff amount of money for one too!

[K5DH]

Wasn't someone a few years ago selling knockoff TOBY Jugs? It seemed he was really proud of them and wanted a really stiff amount of money for one too!

I was Googling around for Toby mugs a while back and found a web site where they had repros for $150 each. I didn't buy one!

EDIT: Did some more searching today. . .

These guys have the repro Toby mug for $200 shipped, or $220 for the 500-piece limited edition model.

http://www.acpservices.com/toch.htm

Mid-Atlantic Air Museum has the repro for $169.95 plus shipping:

http://www.maam.org/php/xcart/Robin-Hoo ... 16451.html

I'd love to have one, but I can think of many other things that I should spend my money on (utilities, insurance, fuel, food, trinkets and baubles to keep Wifey happy, you know the drill).

Last edited by K5DH on Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Jerry O'Neill]

The Toby's started out at a much lower rice, over half of hat he's asking now. I got one early for about $60-70.
I love it.
Jerry