Warbird Information Exchange

So private air museum's such as Pima, McMinnville, Yanks, etc. have several very nice warbirds that are static only and I would assume are feeling the pinch of the poor economy. I wonder if these museums have or would be willing to part with a few of their aircraft to private owners such as Paul Allen, Rod Lewis etc. who seem to want to collect airworthy examples.

OK OK after reading my above paragraph twenty seven times over I finally get how a couple of you are getting confused on the "financial trouble" deal. I'll say it once again, Sorry! for the confusion, I was NOT in anyway accusing ANY museum of being in financial trouble. OK last time I hope, I was NOT trying to state that any one particular museum was in ANY financial trouble. But I would bet they ALL, whether it be a museum, owner, club, boy scout troup, whatever, are feeling some sort of poor economic pinch as we all are, but that does not equate to me accusing them of being in financial trouble. That I can assure you of, If not, I'm going to buy the first museum I can find that's for sale. So please do me a great big favor and lose the "financial trouble" BS ... it doesn't exist in my questions. And also the debate about what should fly and what shouldn't doesn't exist here either. It was just mean't to be a few simple questions about what privately owned museum aircraft would you like to acquire and make airworthy. Again sorry for the confusing questions but don't twist it so much. geezz!!!

G'day Franklin,



No worries. I didn't think I was twisting anything. The thread title wasn't specifically referring to privately-owned aircraft, and I didn't realise that you were limiting the discussion to them alone.

*edit* Re-reading your origina post mentions privately-owned aircraft a number of times. Point taken.

Cheers,
Matt

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Matt Austin - playing with warbirds since the early 80s.

See my Lee-Enfield videos at - http://www.youtube.com/user/Jollygreenslugg

Not a problem Matt, I wasn't referring to you, I just got a bit annoyed at the financial trouble BS ...

As stated above PIMA has a lot on loan. Chances are they dont have the money to operate what they could possibly fly. Yanks and McMinville are a different story. They have money and a lot of it. They can afford to to do what they want. To them an few million (say $10Million for a P-39) is no big deal, they'd rather have the airplane than the money since they probably already have a LOT of money laying around. They got into the major collecting early before it was COOL and they have their planes.

If you get in later like Mr. Allen, then you have to take what is left. That may mean if you want something you have to dig very deeply into your your bottomless pockets and have one built. They built them from scratch in WWII, if you want one now, you can build anything from scratch, the technology is there, it can be done, it justs costs a lot of money and what a lot is is RELATIVE to what you have. A lot to you isn't probably a lot to me and a lot to me may not be a lot to someone else.

A good example is a person I know who shall remain nameless (So I don't get banned here). He had a relavtively rare 2 seat version of a foreign fighter. It was HIS for a good many years (like 20+) and it suffered an accident. I understand several offers came in to buy it. He didn't sell, why? He didn't need the money, he had the ability to have the aircraft repaired. If he sold it he would have to buy another because that was the plane HE WANTED. He had it in the family for a long time and it was a PART of the FAMILY. So no reason to sell it.

I've got toys that simply aren't for sale. They are worth a lot and I have no need for the money, hence they don't get sold. Most guys have them. It may be baseball cards from when they were kids, an old car they've had forever, or whatever they just don't have to get rid of them.

As time passes people's interests change (YES, GET OLDER AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS), I used to like flying a lot more in the past than I do now. Hence less time gets put on the aircraft, sometimes they don't fly for a long periods of time. I've got a NICE late model Corvette sitting in the hangar that I haven't driven 50 miles in 3 years. Same for planes.

Warbirds add in a NOT REPLACEABLE factor too (without spending large sums of money).... They have a rare plane (say a P-38) and if it doesn't fly, then there is no chance of losing it in a crash. The owner can enjoy watching someone else's P-38 fly. One lesson I learned from a very skilled warbird pilot about 25 years ago was IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBT ABOUT YOUR SKILLS OR POSSIBLE PROBLEM WITH THE PLANE leave it in in the hangar. Easier to fix the plane and work on your skills than try and recover it from a field and possibly put a dumptruck load of parts back together. An example would be the Hellcat that POF lost a few years back. Can't replace it (could build another one if the money was available), sure can't replace Art Vance, hence some places think they should leave the planes on the ground so that at SOME POINT in the future they can get flown, if ever.

In the case of one museum, I see it as a memorial to the owner's son who died in an automobile accident, I really don't see much flight activity happening there in the future if ever.

Lots of factors in play here. Lots of things to think about.

Mark H

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Fly safe or you get to meet me .......

G'day Franklin,

No worries, thanks for the clarification

Cheers,
Matt

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Matt Austin - playing with warbirds since the early 80s.

See my Lee-Enfield videos at - http://www.youtube.com/user/Jollygreenslugg

That's not true, either. Again, the Lewis guys are pretty good at sharing with the public. The planes show up at events and are often available for viewing - such as those pictures of the P-51 that I posted maybe two weeks ago. If you know how to get a hold of the right folks, it's also possible to view whichever planes are currently in the main hangar - although airport security rules are such that they can't just have it open to the public the same way as a museum works. I have personally had a conversation with one of their guys who talked about their desire to have more of a museum setup, but the issues that they also have trying to have that kind of place.

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

That was my point Ryan, Allen's collection anyone can pay a bit to see, Lewis's at the moment you would have to meet or know someone to see his collection. Other than if he sends a few to an event. That was my only point I was trying to make.

As for the rest of my points in this thread ....

Pretty much anyone on WIX can contact me... and I can tell them who to call, and as far as I know, there's typically no fee, either. Locally, they've held a number of events in the hangar for groups like IPMS and more. It's not a huge secret. And he often takes several birds to an event like WOH - not a "few."

I do get your point, though. I'm just not sure that there's a "one size fits all" answer.

Ryan

_________________
Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

I wasn't looking for a "one size fits all" answer .... I was looking to make my point

My point being, Allen's collection is in public museum form today, Lewis's is not today. Maybe down the road everyday people will be able to enter a Lewis warbird museum without having to contact you or know someone. again that was my only point. But who cares right? I'm just glad there's dudes like Allen and Lewis around lol

EDIT!!!!!!! .... I'm in NO WAY criticising anyone's private collection. That was NOT my point .... Please for God's sake do NOT think I am. I'm just trying to make a point that seems to not be doing so well with a few here. Sorry for the confusion.

If you know the family behind the Yanks museum then you would see that they will never have a financial problem. They have the museum more as a hobby than anything.

Franklin,
Your all over the place here.
A Private collection is someone's personal property. It's great what PA has done. He didn't have to and projecting complaints about other collections viewing abilities puts WIX in the gutter in many individuals minds.
In essence, there isn't logic involved in this matter. Personal property will be handled in whatever way the owner wishes it to be.

Now I'll make my selections for what I would like to see flying out of some of these collections-
TA-152/Longnose FW up in Washinton
F2G from the same
Hellcat from Kermit Week's collection
FG-1D modified as a racer in Colorado. I'd race it in it's current condition a couple times then return it to stock. I don't believe it actually raced in it's current configuration.
P-38 from the EAA.
All of Connie Edwards warbirds. Throw in the spare parts and it would even be better.

Just a wish list. No expectations are involved. Hopefully this is in the sport of this discussion.
Franklin, what are your choices?

_________________
Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!

WTF!!!!! .... come on fella, if you can do better please do so, other than that I'd appreciate it if you back off .... geeezzzzz!!! come on I was just trying to start an interesting thread without bashing anyone. If your taking it the wrong way tough!!!! get over it .... If i'm all over the place be my guest. Christ no wonder so many have left WIX. Ease up 51fixer .... it's just a simple well meaning thread gone sour by you and the kid who won't give up on the financial BS of which he has no understanding of anyway.

Thanks for the fun ...... it was a pleasure .... I'm outa here

Too much coffee perhaps?

Franklin, I promise you would be surprised how much understanding I have of the financial end of this. I assure you it is far more than you think it is. Either way, I made a total of two posts on this and it sure does not seem to me that either I or 51fixer made it go sour. You are the one throwing a tantrum.

What I do not get is how you do not understand that your original questions do not make any sense. It seems like you would have figured that much out by the kind of responses you are getting. Maybe if you simplified everything up a little you might get the answers you so desperately crave.

You say you are leaving anyway so I guess you do not want your questions answered that bad. We are sure going to miss you though!

Pointless to even attempt to respond to you warbird2, HGUCSU or who ever you are. You right, I'm wrong, happy now! ... you have fun with that rope of yours.



Ok Rich, just because you asked nicely ... and yes I've had too much coffee ... now it's time for vodka and then I can really get into it .... lol ... I'm sure I'll piss off warbird2 again, but who cares here ya go.
Yanks or POF P-39
Evergreen P-38, P-47, P-40?
Weeks B-26, B-24
POF Raiden
Some of Seattle's Museum of flight aircraft
EAA P-38 as well.