Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Mon May 12, 2025 2:54 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:33 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:39 pm
Posts: 1817
Location: Irving, Texas
What about making two verticle pour slots, one to pour in and the other to allow air to escape?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:08 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:56 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: North of Texas, South of Kansas
Yep, that'll work, especially on larger parts.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:28 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:36 am
Posts: 7961
Location: Mt. Vernon, WA.
Maybe I'm jumping ahead on this, but if you are doing say a new nose panel for a B-24 mod, to keep from spending a lot of time (and piles of tan dust) grinding out window openings, do you use tape to cover the window opening when it's cast? and if yes, what type of tape?

_________________
Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:59 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:56 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: North of Texas, South of Kansas
Yes, you certainly can use tape to plug openings if you desire. I have done that a few times and plain old clear Scotch tape worked for me (an alternative would be a .005 sheet styrene "plug" glued to the interior of the part). In your window example it would result in a thin membrane of resin to be removed from the opening and a raised area on the back side of the part where the tape was applied. The few times I have used tape it occasionally stuck to the RTV after curing and I had to dig it out of the rubber. Not a big problem, though.

If you're doing a two-part mold for something like a fuselage section you could also pour the outside half of the mold with the tape on the other side and then remove the tape when you pour the interior half of the mold. In that case you'd simply make sure to get mold release/vaseline on the RTV in the window opening so the mold halves wouldn't bond together (been there, done that! :rolleyes: ). When you poured the resin parts there would be an opening with no tape bump or membrane.

Incidentally, if there are any other moldmakers watching this thread we would like your input, too. My methods are pretty basic and I'm always wanting to learn new things!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 612
Location: Arizona
I know when I worked for "the tank maker" we used a single pour area and used vacuum. I had great success with it in making 1/35 scale .45's.

Scott

_________________
Scott Dunkirk
AZGCLHU Inc.

http://arizonagroundcrew.org/

1940's Army Air Force ground crew living history
(A 501 C 3 organization)
(IYAMYAS)

"Yes sir, it's suppose to look like that"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:26 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:56 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: North of Texas, South of Kansas
A vacuum chamber is a definite plus, especially for production purposes. I started to tinker with the idea but gave it up since I didn't do a huge volume in my little business. I've never been accused of spending too much money on tooling! :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:13 pm
Posts: 671
Location: Indiana
Thanks for the great resin casting lesson Scott!

If you were doing something like a four blade propeller would you use multiple pour slots? Or is flow/air removal not that much of an issue when pouring?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:54 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:56 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: North of Texas, South of Kansas
I've only tried to cast one propeller so far and it worked alright for a first attempt. I used the props from the old AMT A-20 for the Y1B-17 project and needed to come up with spares. Here is a photo essay on how I did the mold.

First I built up a clay base that encompassed just the blades, then constructed the sides of the box. You'll be able to see why I tried it this way later:
Image
Image

The balance of the moldmaking process is exactly as the little wheel project at the start of this thread:
Image

After the mold was fully cured I made my first pour. Since I was learning-as-I-went I decided to do the pour in a "sandwich" method. The mold with the front propeller is face-down on the table and the other half is ready to lay in place immediately after the resin is poured. It's important that you have everything ready to go so that the resin won't start cooking off before the back half of the mold is laid in place. Mix the resin and carefully pour it into the blade and hub recesses:
Image

Next, take your "deaerating/bubble-busting" tool and see that all the hub details are filled with the resin.
Image

Now lay the male half of the mold into the female and press it down slowly to allow excess resin to ooze out of the mold seam. It's a matter of experience how much resin it'll take to fill the mold but not make a big mess during this step. After the resin is fully cured you can remove the male half of the mold and pop out the freshly cast propeller. If you use the sandwich method you'll end up with a bit of flash to trim as in this example. Notice the remnants of clay on the blades? This is the first piece that I poured from the virgin mold and it picked up some little bits of clay that I didn't get:
Image

Give it just a half-hour or so to fully set up and then trim the flash carefully from the part and you'll have something like this. A couple of small voids are visible on the trailing and leading edges in a few spots. These are where tiny bubbles of air were entrapped during the deaerating step:
Image

I learned that you can cast knife-edged prop blades with a fair amount of success by using this method. I haven't yet tried to use the pour-stub method on a prop and don't know how it would work without a vacuum chamber. I would think that you would have to have a vent or pour stub at each of the blade tips to get the resin to fully fill the cavities. If you are only doing a small run of a few props I tend to think the sandwich mold might be better. An alternative that some of the professional casters use is to pour the blades and hub as separate parts for later assembly.

Incidentally, the RTV I used on the propeller is the Bare Metal brand stuff. It is really easy to work with and seems to be pretty durable.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:13 pm
Posts: 671
Location: Indiana
Thanks Scott!

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:33 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:39 pm
Posts: 1817
Location: Irving, Texas
This is a great post, better than a magazine or instruction sheet. We can ask questions and get a reply back within hours.

What would a vacuum chamber look like? It would have to be strong to with stand the negative air pressure.

Would an air tight box with a vacuum cleaner work?

How long do you need to run the vacuum? I'm assuming until the resin sets up.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:08 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:56 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: North of Texas, South of Kansas
My first feeble attempt at a vacuum chamber was with a vacuum cleaner (big honkin' Kirby) and a smallish plastic container. It wasn't successful, but I think it would have been with a proper container. The vacuum had plenty of power, though. My second thought was to find my A/C evacuation pump and hook it up to a proper bell jar-type chamber. I was getting sufficient results without it so I just never pursued the idea further. My third thought was to dig out a vacuum pump from a mid-eighties Cadillac that I have stashed somewhere, buy the bell jar and hook the whole thing together permanently. I just never got around to messing with it.

Scott has mentioned that he's used a proper vacuum chamber--perhaps we could have him describe the hardware next time he visits this thread.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 612
Location: Arizona
Well as everything is dimantled right now I can explain a little but no photos.

As for a "vacuum chanber" we put rubber weather stripping in the lip of various sized pyrex clear bowls.

I had my bleedoff tube set to the right of the bowl (which the bowl was seated on a 2 foot by 2 foot 1/4 inch thick piece of alluminum) I would "boil" the parts mold for 20 to 30 seconds and then either bleed off the pressure fast or slowly, all depending on the part. I know the little drive handles for a Sherman tank are a pain sometimes. Another issue was barometric pressure on our little parts, if a storm was coming in I only did large or bulky parts, otherwise the detail wasn't there. I hope this kinda helps.

Scott

_________________
Scott Dunkirk
AZGCLHU Inc.

http://arizonagroundcrew.org/

1940's Army Air Force ground crew living history
(A 501 C 3 organization)
(IYAMYAS)

"Yes sir, it's suppose to look like that"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:26 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:39 pm
Posts: 1817
Location: Irving, Texas
I have a 750 CFM vacuum pump (used with a milking machine) that will pull 18 inches Hg., that should work.

How long do you pull the vacuum?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 612
Location: Arizona
It depended on the type of resin, our slow cure was for 20 to 30 seconds and the fast cure was for 5 to 10 seconds.

Scott

_________________
Scott Dunkirk
AZGCLHU Inc.

http://arizonagroundcrew.org/

1940's Army Air Force ground crew living history
(A 501 C 3 organization)
(IYAMYAS)

"Yes sir, it's suppose to look like that"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:53 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:54 am
Posts: 5200
Location: Stratford, CT.
Scott,

Okay I finally got a pic of all the parts that come with the Bandai Corsair, with the addition of a second modified fuselage. I also threw in a N Scale 4x4 Jeep which I was also hoping to resin cast. Love to hear your opinion on the matter of casting all these parts. In reality we could omit some of the smaller parts that you wouldn't necessarily see when doing a large scale diorama.

Image

Parts:

1x Set of Wings (One solid molded piece)
2x Fuselages (1 Original F4U-1D and 1 modified to F4U-1A "Birdcage")
1x Propeller
1x R-2800
1x Cowling
1x Prop Hub & Shaft (hehe.......shaft)
1x Instrument Panel
1x Tail Gear
1x Tail Gear Doors (Closed)
1x Canopy
2x Landing Gear Struts (L&R)
2x Gear Doors (L&R)
2x Wheels
2x Horizontal Stabilizers (L&R)

Bonus:
1x N Scale Willys 4x4 Jeep w. Canvas Cover

Let me know what you think.

_________________
Keep Em' Flying,
Christopher Soltis

Dedicated to the preservation and education of The Sikorsky Memorial Airport

CASC Blog Page: http://ctair-space.blogspot.com/
Warbird Wear: https://www.redbubble.com/people/warbirdwear/shop

Chicks Dig Warbirds.......right?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group