B-17 Chin Turret query

[the330thbg]

dupe

[whistlingdeath77]

With the guns pointed forward they could interfere with the bombsight if the plane was flying in a severe crosswind. The sight does swivel for aiming purposes.

ahhhh. so i was right. thanks for setting us straight

no, mate, not quite .., look at the photo and determine how the guns would interfere with the bombsite if they were pointed forward. I have never seen a photo nor a video of a 17 with a chin gun going in over a target with them pointed anywhere but straight ahead. I would imagine that was their 'default' position. In other words if you shut them down, they would track to being straight ahead.

The bombsite is located just above that flat piece of glass in the nose. Not off to either side.., but on the centerline. The bombsite would only pivot so far.. and would not pivot to look out the side of the nose.,. just through that centerline.., which is in line with the bombay for a reason.

The guns would centerline.., the bombardier would swing those controls out of the way and pivot over his bombsite for his next job. Then once that was done, he would pivot the bombsite out of the way and go back to keeping the bad guys from making nose runs on his aircraft.

The only crosswinds severe enough to crab a bomber sideways over the target would be the jetstreams that the first B-29's encountered when they first started bombing Japan. Actually, that is how they discovered the Jetstream was with the B-29.

good info on that subject. thanks!

[RAMC181]

Anyone have any thoughts on the original question?

All the best,
PB

[the330thbg]

I have never heard of spent shells being a hazard

[Jarink1]

The chin turret could only be controlled from the bombardier's position.
The navigator would man the cheek guns on either side of the nose.


This picture shows the bombsight, the gunsight for the chin turret (directly above the bombsight) and the turret control paddles which are swung out to the stowage position on the right side. Swing the controls down and they'll be roughly where your head should be to look through the sight.

[RAMC181]

I have never heard of spent shells being a hazard

I've been going through the 401BG mission and engineering reports over the last week or two, and there are quite a number of incidents of windows being damaged by spent links and cases from preceding aircraft, usually the nose glazing.

All the best,
PB

[the330thbg]

I have never heard of spent shells being a hazard

I've been going through the 401BG mission and engineering reports over the last week or two, and there are quite a number of incidents of windows being damaged by spent links and cases from preceding aircraft, usually the nose glazing.

All the best,
PB

Well, now I have heard of spent shell casings being a hazard.

[RAMC181]

There were almost as many reports of Chaff/Window causing problems.
Bundles that were too tightly packed didn't disperse and were hitting following aircraft, too loose and they were breaking up as soon as they came out the chute in the radio room sidewall and getting wrapped around the waist guns of the same aircraft or the radio antenna of following ones.

PB

[mustangdriver]

While we are the subject of the nose, Rob and I are finding that the 305th BG removed alot of their cheeck guns from the right side as it was to packed in there.

[RAMC181]

Does anyone know when this variant of chin turret was introduced?



Looking at photos of 44-83884 at Barksdale AFB it seems she has this type fitted, albeit with the sliding panels missing.
LINKY to nice big photo.

Back to the original query once again.

It seems B-17G-95-VE 44-83863 at Eglin AFB, B-17G-100-VE 44-85599 at Dyes AFB and B-17G-105-VE 44-87538 at Tulare all have this canvasless type of chin turret too.

Any ideas as to the turret sub-type and introduction date?

All the best,
PB

[RAMC181]

With the show season only a few months away I've started cleaning a few bits and bobs ready for public display.
First into the soapy water was the barrel sleeve.

Before:



After:



While the next item is in soak, here's another photo I found showing the sleeves in position:



Closeup of the stencilling for reference:



On the subject of stencilling, here's a nice view showing the style and layout of the aircraft data decals:



All the best,
PB

[the330thbg]

Wow.., that is going to look very sweet!! Great job!

Do any of the current flying 17's with the Bendix chin's utilize this 'jacket' today? I can not recall seeing it.

Best,

S.

[aerovin]

It seems B-17G-95-VE 44-83863 at Eglin AFB, B-17G-100-VE 44-85599 at Dyes AFB and B-17G-105-VE 44-87538 at Tulare all have this canvasless type of chin turret too.

Any ideas as to the turret sub-type and introduction date?

All the best,
PB

It goes without saying but I'll say it anyways. All three of these aircraft had their original turrets removed circa 1945 and whatever is installed on them now is what ever was available when it came time to restore the appearance of these B-17Gs as warbirds twenty or thirty years hence. However, I have a Douglas delivery photo of 44-83884 in July 1945 that shows the metal slot covering vs. the canvas installation.

It is interesting to me that, from what I have been able to determine, the initial batch of Bendix chin turrets installed on early B-17Gs were surplus production B-25 lower turrets deleted from the design as they were basically unusable as installed on the B-25. The unwieldy sighting mechanism used in the B-25 to control the turret was not workable, and with a bunch of turrets left over, they were reworked for the B-17 chin installation. I can't say this with certainty, but I suspect this is why some of the early B-17 chin turrets had the plexiglas panel between the guns; it was leftover from the gun sighting system used in the B-25.

[bomberflight]

Do any of the current flying 17's with the Bendix chin's utilize this 'jacket' today?

Some "Chin" shots ......















This last one is Sally B

Last edited by bomberflight on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[RAMC181]

It goes without saying but I'll say it anyways. All three of these aircraft had their original turrets removed circa 1945 and whatever is installed on them now is what ever was available when it came time to restore the appearance of these B-17Gs as warbirds twenty or thirty years hence. However, I have a Douglas delivery photo of 44-83884 in July 1945 that shows the metal slot covering vs. the canvas installation.

The photo of "Flak-Shy Lady" was taken at Deopham Green in England in May 1945.

All the best,
PB