Pros / Cons, and opinions on Re-enactors

Shay · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:58 am

So with regards to bonafide "Reenactor Groups", not to be confused with individuals who do it on their own, I assume these groups have regular meetings, what is the content of these meetings? Do groups establish guidelines pertaining to it's members actions and if so what are they.

Merely curious.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:16 pm

I was a member of the National Military History Association (Headquartered in Atlanta). We did have monthly meetings at a local restaurant. Meetings consisted of 1) General Club business, 2) What reenactments were coming up, and 3) a talk by a vet (German, US, Brit, Russian we had a load of 'em) and then concluded with a swap shop of gear etc...

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:23 pm

Richard W, I too was a "Real" Paratrooper. Was in the 82nd (319thAFAR as an Fire Support Sergeant for A1/508th) in the early 80's. Which unit were you with? After I went to OCS, I was never able to get back on status.

BTW, in the photos above, I didn't realize the South was so well fed!

cco23i · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:34 pm

Shay,
Yes units have guidelines as for dealing with "political" ideals. No Nazis allowed in many German units BUT seems there are units (SS) that seem to have strong numbers of skinheads. It's actually a small number BUT it taints the hobby non the less. We do ground crews, ALL ground crews including German Luftwaffe. So in our bylaws it states no political impressions and political and subversive ideals are not allowed.

Scott

Richard W. · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:41 pm

Pogmusic- I was in the 82nd, too. 3/325 AIR from '83 to '86.

Yeah, the classic problem with reenactors of all eras is the weight issue. I've heard that there are some hard-core Confederate units that starve themselves for weeks and months before an event to get the right body type.

We're next to Manassas and the 150th anniversary of the First Battle of Manassas is coming up this summer. I'll bet we'll see reenactors coming from all over the country for that.

cco23i · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:49 pm

THAT's why we started doing ground crew, one, we all are EXTREMELY interested in ground crews (I was a crew chief for 27 years) and TWO, we all are getting older and chubbier so WE are good for WW2 ground crews!

Scott

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:55 pm

Richard W. We just must of been passing each other at the Personnel Office! All the way!
Yep, that's one of the reasons I stopped reenacting was I no longer looked the part. Many of the reenactors I knew were fairly squared away and did it right; but, there are a few wanna be's in each organization. Guys who wanted into the military who couldn't cut the mustard in the REAL military. So they pretend.

cco23i · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:57 pm

The ones I love is the "wanna be" aircrew types who look down on us doing ground crew because they hav no clue on what it takes to get a bird in the air.

Scott

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

IMO, there is something that can be done to greatly enhance the perception of re-enactors. If somehow all the groups could get one set of operating procedures/rules/guidelines and apply them to all groups, it would certainly help. This has been done with the FAST program which standardizes all formation flying for airshows and warbird flying, and it makes the FAA happy. Why can't a nationally standardized program be set up for re-enactors? Some rules worth considering:

1) Insist on correct wear of medals/uniforms.

2) Wearing of uniforms is only authorized at the actual public event/airshow/gathering, etc.

3) Wearing of the uniforms outside of the event - such as in bars/restaurants/airline travel, etc., is strictly prohibited.

4) Have appearance standards regarding weight/haircuts/grooming to give credibility to the re-enactments.

5) No alcohol consumption while in uniform.

6) Extremely strict guidelines for behavior around airplanes. If a standardized "contract" can be guaranteed between the re-enactors and the airplane owners with the threat of disenrollment from the re-enactors group for non-compliance, then owners would probably be much more receptive to re-enactors around their airplanes.

7) Agree that the uniforms' rank holds no value for superior/subordinate relationships except while actually playing the role under public scrutiny during the actual "show time".

8. No "glorifying" Nazi or SS role-playing.

9) Give credence to the belief that re-enactors represent their organizations and any behavior/political statements/subversive beliefs will result in disenrollment from their organization.

10) Come up with a mission statement/objective of what the re-enacting is trying to accomplish. Try to give honor to the Vets, their sacrifices and the price of human courage. Dispel the belief that re-enacting is a chance to "dress up and play army" for a bunch of "military wanna-be rejects".

I'm sure there are many other things worth considering, but you get the point. A set of "national standards" would go a long way to painting re-enacting in a more positive light.

Reaction?

cco23i · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:43 pm

I know many units and organizations have done "all the above". The key thing here, dare I say, is common sense. Seems those two words are no longer used by some people. We ALWAYS get permission from the aircraft owners and never push, hell many of us know the expenses of aircraft and want to enhance the aircraft static display and not "cause waves". As for number 5, well, as we are working on a "living history" airbase this too will include an "all ranks" club, so thiis too will be monitored and "policed". The key thing is that keep the reins on to a point and "pull" when necessary. I know we have our bylaws, PLUS a flightline safety booklet that the members are tested on, AND we also hols aircraft and flightline safety and general practise clases for our fellows. After all the years of being around aircraft I don't want anyone getting hurt OR breaking an airframe.

Scott

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

cco23i wrote:

I know many units and organizations have done "all the above". The key thing here, dare I say, is common sense. Seems those two words are no longer used by some people. We ALWAYS get permission from the aircraft owners and never push, heck many of us know the expenses of aircraft and want to enhance the aircraft static display and not "cause waves". As for number 5, well, as we are working on a "living history" airbase this too will include an "all ranks" club, so thiis too will be monitored and "policed". The key thing is that keep the reins on to a point and "pull" when necessary. I know we have our bylaws, PLUS a flightline safety booklet that the members are tested on, AND we also hols aircraft and flightline safety and general practise clases for our fellows. After all the years of being around aircraft I don't want anyone getting hurt OR breaking an airframe.

Scott

That's fantastic that your organization already incorporates all of that, but what about the others? All it takes is one Mustang or B-17 owner to have a "bad experience" with a re-enactor group to paint everybody with the same brush and never allow them around his/her aircraft again. The fact that many already do this is great, but there needs to be a national organization/group that can solidify and standardize these rules so there is no question whatsoever whether a group is going to adhere to certain standards of behavior. The threat of banning from these groups and events needs to be real and enforced for these rules to be effective.

Again, back to the FAST program analogy. Long gone are the days of not knowing if someone is formation qualified at an airshow. Any particular warbird pilot can brief and fly with any other warbird pilot knowing full well that that other pilot has passed standards which make them safe to fly with. AFAIK, there is no such program in the re-enactor world. This is what I am talking about.

cco23i · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:34 pm

There are units who do this. As we portray a ground crew we concentrait on aircraft and as such we are there also to protect the aircraft for the owners. So if it means "pissing off" a member of a unit to keep from damaging and aircraft, so be it.

Scott

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:58 pm

Warbird1. Great concept. Most MAJOR organizations have that in place. However, have you ever tried herding cats? In many cases a guy spends a ton of money on a "toy" (Much like an A/C owner) and wants to use it as part of his impression. Well, that toy wasn't really issued to that type unit or for one of his rank. Also, it is a civilian organization so only the ones that do it right are usually the ones that get asked back to museums, airshows etc.

JohnB · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:37 pm

I would have a hard time wearing a German uniform (I guess I'd have to have one if I had the Bf-108 that used to be based in the CAF hangar in Abilene...it was sold after its owner died..anyone know where it went?)...but they sure were snappy.
Everytime we see a WWII film, you can count on my wife or myself saying.."Great looking uniform".

And I agree with the statements that said they should at least try and look military...not too old, too fat, too long hair.
Rather like Hollywood films...I saw a film in the 80s and female USAF airman was about 250 lbs (it might have been Iron Eagle or somesuch..)

cco23i · **Posted:** Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:05 pm

As for wearing a German uniform, I can as I am trying to show people what the ground crews wore and did. One good thing about the German ground crew coveralls is many times instead of the nationalist eagle on the breast they wore the mechanics insignia on their breast and the eagle was on the cap.

Scott

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