Re: Martin Caidin
Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:41 pm
"Thunderbirds" was a great read in addition to the others mentioned here.
Re: Martin Caidin
Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:00 am
Interesting thread, and question.
There's some interesting comments on the Wiki page on Martin, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Caidin
...and don't miss some of the discussion behind it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Martin_Caidin
There's some interesting comments on the Wiki page on Martin, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Caidin
...and don't miss some of the discussion behind it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Martin_Caidin
Re: Martin Caidin
Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:09 am
His Book "The Saga of Iron Annie" is still my favorite warbird book. Twenty-five years later, I still want a Ju-52 of my own. Granted, I am sure a lot of what he wrote was well over exaggerated but it still made great reading.
Re: Martin Caidin
Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:17 am
Just to add to the discussion is this review I did of Everything But The Flak a few years ago...he was an interesting individual.
"A quirky little book by a renowned aviation author...that's the best way to describe Everything But The Flak. For those unfamiliar with B-17 lore, the book tells the story of ferrying three B-17s from Tucson, Arizona, to Gatwick, England, in late September and early October 1961. The three B-17s were needed in England for use in the filming of The War Lover with actors Steve McQueen and Robert Wagner. The late author Martin Caidin flew as the copilot in the lead B-17 and his recollections of the epic journey gelled into this 1964 book. Though the book is long out of print, it is available in many library collections in a hardbound version illustrated with numerous black and white photos. It was a later paperback and copies are still available through internet and other sources.
For me, personally, growing up in the 1960s and 1970s and hungering for all things about the B-17, I was first introduced to Caidin's personal B-17 exploits in his later book Flying Forts. He told of his transatlantic flight in the final chapter of the book and referred to his earlier book about the ferry flight. I was able to order a copy of Everything But The Flak and eagerly devoured the book when I finally got my hands on it. I would later exchange letters with Caidin's personal secretary about the story. Looking at the book now, it comes across as a perfect snapshot of the Martin Caidin style.
Caidin was from the old school of aviation authors. He had written through the 1950s and produced several books in association with the Air Force and the Air Force Thunderbirds. He had written about various aspects of America's young space program and made a bit of a name for himself. He later wrote several biographies on World War II aces, books on the P-47, P-38, and B-17, among others, and a number of fictional war stories. He may be best known for Marooned, later made into a motion picture, and Cyborg which morphed into The Six Million Dollar Man on television.
Despite his books on aviation history, Caidin was more of a storyteller than an aviation historian. One can't really use his books as source material for research because the wheat and chaff are tied too closely. In the case of Everything But The Flak, there is a lot of chaff but it does make for good reading. He revels in the 'wild and woolies' image he attaches to himself and the other crewmembers of the three bombers as they, seemingly, performed continual and magnificent aeronautical feats in what had to be a perpetual alcohol-induced haze.
Some of it tends to get a bit thick in parts. He details in great length a contentious meeting with Russians and Cubans at Gander, Newfoundland, in late September 1961. To read it here, they single-handedly broke the story about Russians in Cuba and dashed stories off to the New York Times and other newspapers.
After making emergency landings (numerous engine fires and other problems) at Lisbon, Portugal, the entire B-17 entourage is arrested by the secret police for gun running and Caidin relates the incident like an adventure novel. The thing about Caidin is it all might have happened just as he wrote it, or he may have written it as he remembered it to be, or it might be embellished just a bit with his style. One doesn't really know and really can't find out. In any event, the book is a legend in B-17 literature and should be read if only for the experience."
"A quirky little book by a renowned aviation author...that's the best way to describe Everything But The Flak. For those unfamiliar with B-17 lore, the book tells the story of ferrying three B-17s from Tucson, Arizona, to Gatwick, England, in late September and early October 1961. The three B-17s were needed in England for use in the filming of The War Lover with actors Steve McQueen and Robert Wagner. The late author Martin Caidin flew as the copilot in the lead B-17 and his recollections of the epic journey gelled into this 1964 book. Though the book is long out of print, it is available in many library collections in a hardbound version illustrated with numerous black and white photos. It was a later paperback and copies are still available through internet and other sources.
For me, personally, growing up in the 1960s and 1970s and hungering for all things about the B-17, I was first introduced to Caidin's personal B-17 exploits in his later book Flying Forts. He told of his transatlantic flight in the final chapter of the book and referred to his earlier book about the ferry flight. I was able to order a copy of Everything But The Flak and eagerly devoured the book when I finally got my hands on it. I would later exchange letters with Caidin's personal secretary about the story. Looking at the book now, it comes across as a perfect snapshot of the Martin Caidin style.
Caidin was from the old school of aviation authors. He had written through the 1950s and produced several books in association with the Air Force and the Air Force Thunderbirds. He had written about various aspects of America's young space program and made a bit of a name for himself. He later wrote several biographies on World War II aces, books on the P-47, P-38, and B-17, among others, and a number of fictional war stories. He may be best known for Marooned, later made into a motion picture, and Cyborg which morphed into The Six Million Dollar Man on television.
Despite his books on aviation history, Caidin was more of a storyteller than an aviation historian. One can't really use his books as source material for research because the wheat and chaff are tied too closely. In the case of Everything But The Flak, there is a lot of chaff but it does make for good reading. He revels in the 'wild and woolies' image he attaches to himself and the other crewmembers of the three bombers as they, seemingly, performed continual and magnificent aeronautical feats in what had to be a perpetual alcohol-induced haze.
Some of it tends to get a bit thick in parts. He details in great length a contentious meeting with Russians and Cubans at Gander, Newfoundland, in late September 1961. To read it here, they single-handedly broke the story about Russians in Cuba and dashed stories off to the New York Times and other newspapers.
After making emergency landings (numerous engine fires and other problems) at Lisbon, Portugal, the entire B-17 entourage is arrested by the secret police for gun running and Caidin relates the incident like an adventure novel. The thing about Caidin is it all might have happened just as he wrote it, or he may have written it as he remembered it to be, or it might be embellished just a bit with his style. One doesn't really know and really can't find out. In any event, the book is a legend in B-17 literature and should be read if only for the experience."
Re: Martin Caidin
Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:03 am
Martin Caidin provided one of the seminal memories of my childhood in 1977. We were living in an apartment complex right off of Langley AFB called Heather Lake (anyone who's been stationed here will know where it is), and our apartment was right at the back of the complex, where I could watch flight ops on Langley's main runway from my bedroom window upstairs. Heady stuff, especially as the 1st TFW had just recently started flying their F-15As, and made a habit of taking off straight up. 
Anyways, one spring day I was playing out front when I heard some unusual aircraft engines approaching. Now, I've always been an airplane nut, and I knew whatever was coming had to be something unusual. What I *didn't* expect was a rooftop flyby of a Junkers 52 right over our courtyard!!! I nearly lost my mind jumping up and down and excitedly yelling, and if I close my eyes, I can still see that lumbering giant come barreling over our apartment.
We visited the airshow that weekend and I brought my copy of "Golden Wings", and when I met Mr. Caidin, he graciously signed it for me, adding the notation "JU-52" next to his name. The cover is dinged but the book is still in decent condition, and it's still one of my absolute favorites- not least because of that flyby which seared itself into my memory.
Thanks for the inspiration, Martin.
Lynn
Anyways, one spring day I was playing out front when I heard some unusual aircraft engines approaching. Now, I've always been an airplane nut, and I knew whatever was coming had to be something unusual. What I *didn't* expect was a rooftop flyby of a Junkers 52 right over our courtyard!!! I nearly lost my mind jumping up and down and excitedly yelling, and if I close my eyes, I can still see that lumbering giant come barreling over our apartment.
We visited the airshow that weekend and I brought my copy of "Golden Wings", and when I met Mr. Caidin, he graciously signed it for me, adding the notation "JU-52" next to his name. The cover is dinged but the book is still in decent condition, and it's still one of my absolute favorites- not least because of that flyby which seared itself into my memory.
Thanks for the inspiration, Martin.
Lynn
Re: Martin Caidin
Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:07 pm
Caidin introduced me to the B-17 many moons ago, and helped shape my addiction to warbirds! I know he might have been a bit of a windbag to some, but I know of others in the same catagory that helped inspire others with their larger than life egos....I put Martin right up there with Roscoe Turner, they were not afraid to live life as they wanted, and like it or not, they did their part quite well, for promoting aviation, be it racing, warbirds, or general aviation as a whole.
Here's a plug for March AFB Museum....they sell used books and aviation related mags. in their gift shop. I purchased Caidin's "The Last Dogfight" and "Whip" when there last month...both hard back copies cost a total of $2...I also donate old books and mags. to them for others to read and pass on...but these two...I'll keep them on my shelf for a while for my grandkids!
Here's a plug for March AFB Museum....they sell used books and aviation related mags. in their gift shop. I purchased Caidin's "The Last Dogfight" and "Whip" when there last month...both hard back copies cost a total of $2...I also donate old books and mags. to them for others to read and pass on...but these two...I'll keep them on my shelf for a while for my grandkids!
Re: Martin Caidin
Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:25 pm
Please excuse me for resurrecting an ancient thread ...... but I got to searching for info on Martin Caidin. Believe it or not, I'd never heard of him until I started on "Rag Wings and Heavy Iron". Anyway, now I'm curious as to how he died, can't find anything that says......
Re: Martin Caidin
Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:41 pm
Cancer got him.
Re: Martin Caidin
Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:45 pm
Thanks. Funny you should reply, of all people. when I Googled "Martin Caidin" the pic you're using for an avatar came up in the "Images for Martin Caidin" return (which is also where I linked to this thread). I recognized it instantly, then naturally got to wondering, then, exactly WHO is in that pic, izzit you or him?
Re: Martin Caidin
Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:36 pm
Caidin's books are very enjoyable reading, but their historical accuracy comes into question. You almost have to read them more as historical novels than true non-fiction. Flying Fortress has a number of tales and exaggerations. Someone once said (maybe it was Scott in "The Final Cut") that Caidin was "never the kind of writer who would let the truth interfere with a good story". The opening story about the B-17 skipping like a stone across the English Channel on its ball turret is apparently a fabrication. No documentation has ever been produced to back the story up.
I did thoroughly enjoy "Thunderbolt" as well as "Flying Forts" and "Black Thursday". While I have heard a good deal of criticism of his other books, I haven't heard any on "Thunderbolt"...maybe Robert Johnson had a bit more input on the final product?
I did thoroughly enjoy "Thunderbolt" as well as "Flying Forts" and "Black Thursday". While I have heard a good deal of criticism of his other books, I haven't heard any on "Thunderbolt"...maybe Robert Johnson had a bit more input on the final product?
Re: Martin Caidin
Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:49 pm
Pogo wrote:Thanks. Funny you should reply, of all people. when I Googled "Martin Caidin" the pic you're using for an avatar came up in the "Images for Martin Caidin" return (which is also where I linked to this thread). I recognized it instantly, then naturally got to wondering, then, exactly WHO is in that pic, izzit you or him?
Weird....
It's a picture of me at FIFIs FE panel.
Re: Martin Caidin
Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:07 am
Yeah, I recognize the office, I've sat there a few times myself. Um, as a tourist, that is. 
Re: Martin Caidin
Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:46 am
was my favorite writer as a 9 year old and as a teen. I don't own any of those books but really should. Could read over and over again Iron Annie, Ragwings and Everything but the Flak. Read Samurai too. Love em all!
JH
JH
Re: Martin Caidin
Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:31 am
Caidin's a complex guy, and I'd agree with Saxman's assessment. He was definitely a 'print the legend' kind of writer.
However he was a d@mn good writer in that he was entertaining and kept you reading - unlike many other better researchers who kill their topic by being duulllll - I know, I've had to edit some of it.
It should also be noted that he wrote, entertainingly and with tall tails included, about stuff he'd really done, and given that much of it was pretty out there - film and airshow flying, long-range ferries across the Atlantic in old warbirds - that he survived it all shows he was both lucky and good. I'm sure there were many stories that didn't happen the way he wrote them; but he wasn't the first or the last pilot who did that in the bar, or to an admiring audience. The independent record shows he did do a lot of what he claimed, so it wasn't all bar flying.
Lucky, good and entertaining - a pretty impressive mix, and he could back it up with more real achievement than many pilots telling bar tales. Maybe a suspect historian, but on the other side he got a lot of people into old aviation and aviation history.
His non-aviation writing career wasn't so dusty either.
However he was a d@mn good writer in that he was entertaining and kept you reading - unlike many other better researchers who kill their topic by being duulllll - I know, I've had to edit some of it.
It should also be noted that he wrote, entertainingly and with tall tails included, about stuff he'd really done, and given that much of it was pretty out there - film and airshow flying, long-range ferries across the Atlantic in old warbirds - that he survived it all shows he was both lucky and good. I'm sure there were many stories that didn't happen the way he wrote them; but he wasn't the first or the last pilot who did that in the bar, or to an admiring audience. The independent record shows he did do a lot of what he claimed, so it wasn't all bar flying.
Lucky, good and entertaining - a pretty impressive mix, and he could back it up with more real achievement than many pilots telling bar tales. Maybe a suspect historian, but on the other side he got a lot of people into old aviation and aviation history.
His non-aviation writing career wasn't so dusty either.
Re: Martin Caidin
Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:15 am
The general drift of the comments made in this thread agree with my own personal impressions. I'm a 51 year old guy who has been passionate about all things flying since childhood, though I come from a decidedly non-aviation oriented family. For whatever it's worth (ka-ching! $0.02) my feeling is he's a blowhard ..... but not so bad I put the book down. Nearly did, though. Now, that doesn't mean I hold him in contempt, but rather, see his writing as great for younger audiences, and the man himself a guy who really lived life to its fullest. I'd trade lives with him (said the guy who has no fear of really being held to it).