B-24D with 5 50.Cals in the nose

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:49 am

Thanks for that link, Lynn. I'd forgotten about that thread completely and it solves the location of the modification center that installed the fixed guns.

Since the Halpro airplanes and early 98th Group machines seem to all have gotten the gun installation it seems very likely that others of that batch could have gotten to the Aleutians. The 404th Bombardment Squadron of the 11th Air Force got a number of early B-24Ds in the summer of '42. The Squadron took up the name "Pink Elephants" since their initial equipment was desert sand-camouflaged Libs!

Scott

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:01 am

Scott Royce the father of LSFM's Ralph Royce is the gentleman that designed the guns in the lower glass nose of the B-24's. Scott is also the son of Gen. Ralph Royce. I also believe that Strawberry Bitch in the NMUSAF has some extra guns in the nose.

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:19 am

I don't think SB had the low-mounted fixed guns from the photos I've seen. She rolled out of the factory in August of '43 and appears to have been sent directly to Herington after her test hops. Here's a neat link that gives some idea of the preparations entailed in getting a new crew and new airplane together and on their way overseas. http://www.376hbgva.com/memoirs/rice.html

The article implies that StrawberryBitch got her name while in the States, likely at Herington. Only the name was painted on, not the girl, at this time. If that is so, a young civilian worker employed by the Base Unit is probably the person who initially painted on the name. She was responsible for a fair amount of nose art on new Liberators processing through Herington and has been mentioned in several other stories I've read.

Thanks for pointing out the fixed .50 on The Squaw, Smis. I confess I haven't really studied the airplane other than to note she had narrow chord props, but I can tell you exactly on the apron where she was parked that day! :rolleyes:

If y'all have really good eyes you can see the tetrahedron on the far right of that photo. It's still at Herington, though it was moved a number of years ago, and we still use it to check wind direction when we're landing there.

Scott

the330thbg · **Joined:** Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm **Posts:** 2713

Okay.., finally found one just like it on a B-24 site.

Thanks for your patience.

Awesome PUNCH!!! I would rather have these than the two(2) in the turret.., any day!!!

gemmer · **Joined:** Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:54 am **Posts:** 315

Second Air Force wrote:

I don't think SB had the low-mounted fixed guns from the photos I've seen. She rolled out of the factory in August of '43 and appears to have been sent directly to Herington after her test hops. Here's a neat link that gives some idea of the preparations entailed in getting a new crew and new airplane together and on their way overseas. http://www.376hbgva.com/memoirs/rice.html

The article implies that StrawberryBitch got her name while in the States, likely at Herington. Only the name was painted on, not the girl, at this time. If that is so, a young civilian worker employed by the Base Unit is probably the person who initially painted on the name. She was responsible for a fair amount of nose art on new Liberators processing through Herington and has been mentioned in several other stories I've read.

Thanks for pointing out the fixed .50 on The Squaw, Smis. I confess I haven't really studied the airplane other than to note she had narrow chord props, but I can tell you exactly on the apron where she was parked that day! :rolleyes:

If y'all have really good eyes you can see the tetrahedron on the far right of that photo. It's still at Herington, though it was moved a number of years ago, and we still use it to check wind direction when we're landing there.

Scott

The .50 cal in the lower part of the nose is a socket mounted flexible gun. It's in the standard location for early production B-24Ds. Pacific B-24Ds that went through the Air Depot in Hawaii also hand a fourth gun mounted high, just below the point of the nose.

Duane

Jarink1 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:21 pm **Posts:** 117

Another picture of the twin fixed nose guns.
"Lorraine" of the 376BG, 513BS 41-11591

gemmer wrote:

The .50 cal in the lower part of the nose is a socket mounted flexible gun. It's in the standard location for early production B-24Ds. Pacific B-24Ds that went through the Air Depot in Hawaii also hand a fourth gun mounted high, just below the point of the nose.

Duane

I couldn't find anything closer, but this still shows the 4th gun's position pretty well.
"Dude" of the 90BG, 320BS 42-40326

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:04 pm

Yep, you guys are right. Thanks for correcting my observation on The Squaw and for adding the photos.

Scott

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:15 pm

Ah ... The Dude. Great early aircraft in the 90th bs.

gemmer · **Joined:** Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:54 am **Posts:** 315

I've long been curious about the reason for the relocation of the low mounted nose gun, considering that it had next to no travel in elevation and the gunner/bombardier had to be a contortionist to use it. Initially, on the C model, and the earliest Ds, the gun was in the apex of the nose. I remember reading in a book by Charles Lindburgh, that early production B-24Ds had a problem with the nose gun, as well as the Bendix lower turret(removed from Halpro a/c).
Oddly enough, it would seem that in original the upper location, there was little room to depress the gun. I think the Hawaii Air Depot brought back the upper gun(in a slightly different location) to eliminate the blind spot left by the lower gun. I have a book about the 90th BG that has some great pics of the nose interior showing the 4 guns. If I ever learn how to post pics here, I'll dig it out.

Duane

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:11 am

We'd love to see the photos, Duane. There are a couple of threads around WIX that describe the Photobucket process--if I can do it, anyone can! :rolleyes:

Scott

the330thbg · **Joined:** Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm **Posts:** 2713

Just received these from the B-24D Pilot.,. Vivian Lock. He later flew B-29's with my father in the 330th.

He is still kicking and living in central Illinois. Very knowledgable about his time 60+ years ago as well. Hope I will be the same!

best,

Smisek

Shay · **Posted:** Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:44 pm

Came across these yesterday

From D. Sheley

Caption: "The Squaw"
B-24D Liberator
s/n 41-11761
343rd Bomb Squadron, 98th Bomb Group, 9th Air Force.
This plane took part in the low level Ploesti mission and returned to the US afterwards for a war bond tour.

Caption: "The Squaw"
B-24D-CO Liberator
s/n 41-11761
343rd BS, 98th BG, 9th AF
She was a veteran of the August 1,1943 low-level Ploesti mission and was flown by Royden LeBrecht (pictured) and crew.
The plane retained "The Squaw" artwork on the starboard side, cleaned up for public viewing, for it's combat career. In the spring of 1943 it took the name "Sleepy" on the port side per squadron directive that all planes had Snow White names. She was flown back to the U.S. in September 1943 for a War Bond tour and she was scrapped in November 1944.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Shay · **Posted:** Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:09 pm

For those who can't read what the banner on "The Squaw's" starboard side it says:

Quote:

CITATION
Liberator R. "The Squaw". For meritorious service in aerial combat against the enemy over a period of one year during which time 360,000 pounds of bombs were dropped on axis targets in Africa, Sicily, Italy, Greece, Crete and Roumania. This B-24 has participated in 71 missions, including the low level attack on Ploesti, destroyed 6 enemy aircraft, flown over 550 hours and the equivalent of four timres around the world.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/18532986@N07/4205198015/sizes/o/

If you lookk at the super enlarged version you can see that alot people signer her fuselage, a la Memphis Belle

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

JDK · **Posted:** Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:02 am

the330thbg wrote:

well, Monday morning 'quarterbacking' is not always the case. Aleutian was a FUBAR opp, same as Arnhem. 20/20 hindsight or not.., they were FUBAR prior to the invasion and FUBAR the following Monday. Some campaign's are thrown together to appease a superior. Some need an extra star, aka invasion of Sicily. A little more time spent in training/planning and recon and things could have had a much better outcome.

Interesting take on Arnhem (Market Garden). It's interesting military history because it wasn't doomed to fail, but because it was a 'nearly' operation, from my understanding of it. Changing any one of numerous small factors in analyses imply success was possible. Opinions of course vary.

The big lesson here is war is not efficient, nor gives guaranteed results for particular action. It's messy, and thoroughly unpredictable. Hindsight gives 'inevitable' results that were simply not so.

Regards,

the330thbg · **Joined:** Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm **Posts:** 2713

the330thbg wrote:

Just received these from the B-24D Pilot.,. Vivian Lock. He later flew B-29's with my father in the 330th.

He is still kicking and living in central Illinois. Very knowledgable about his time 60+ years ago as well. Hope I will be the same!

best,

Smisek

DARN, DARN, DARN!
Just received notice from Mr. Lock's son that another of my father's 330th as passed! Col. Vivian Lock died on 2 October 2010. He just celebrated his 90th birthday last month and had just returned from his 98th ARS reunion in Branson, MO. He was as sharp as a tack and I shall miss him dearly. He flew, B-24's off of the Aleutians, then B-29's off of Guam, then KC-97's for over 10 years out of Lincoln, NE.

Blue Skies comrade.

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B-24D with 5 50.Cals in the nose

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