Warbird Information Exchange

Don't know where else to ask this so I'll start here.

I have some problems with the awarding of the Purple Heart that have to do with the severity of the injury received.
This may be an over-simplification but here goes:
A GI receives a wound, let's say a "through and through" in the leg. He/she would be awarded a Purple Heart.
Stay with me here...
Another GI loses a leg to an explosion. He/she would also be awarded a Purple Heart.

My point here is, (in case I didn't 'splain those scenarios properly) shouldn't there be some "recognition" of the severity of the injury?
After all, we award different "hero" medals depending on the action of the recipient. ie. Medal of Honor for "above and beyond", Silver Star for action more "heroic" than would be for the Bronze Star. I'm not using the term "hero/heroic" as a pejorative here, I just can't think of a better adjective. (There's a first)

One more thing. Would the Purple Heart be awarded for an injury that doesn't involve an "invasive" wounding? Like a broken arm/leg/etc. caused by enemy action.

Mudge the curious

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Land of the free because of the brave

Mudge,

Here's the criteria for the award of the Purple Heart. The medical criteria is down a ways in the document.

Walt

http://www.usmcvta.org/pheart/phcriteria.htm

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If God had intended airplane engines to have horizontally-opposed cylinders, Pratt & Whitney would have built them that way.

My opinion is the the Purple Heart is an award with tradition that starts with the first president of the United States. Let's not do what we have done with Consititution, bill of rights, and every other tradition and ruin it by trying to re-interpret it.

Ryan the Originalist

It seems the Purple Heart is what it is with only the citation to note the severity of the wound including everything from frostbite to death.

The Germans had three grades of "Wound Badge" black, silver and gold, depending on how many times you were wounded and/or the severity. They started that it WWI.

I don't know if any others do this or not...
You would think it would be a no brainer....but we are talking about the Military...

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Zane Adams
There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.
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In the Great War, the Australian Army has "wound stripes" on uniforms...

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..defeat is never an option!

I've never understood the purple heart myself. You get it for screwing up or just being really unlucky imo. I gave mine away to a friends little brother. It's pretty and I figured he would wear it more than me anyway.

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Human nature - we want everything in nice, neat piles. That's just not the world we live in.

Bronze Star, DFC, Air Medal. The range of actions folks have taken over the years to be awarded these mirrors the wide spectrum one might see in a Purple Heart awarded anywhere from a broken finger to the loss of a limb. Citations have been lost and never awarded for some folks for all these decs.

Judge those you meet based on their own merits. I know guys with racks of ribbons who are the real deal and others who I wouldn't let babysit our dogs. I've also met heroes who never got their awards.

The ribbons don't make the man (or woman), their characters do.

Ken

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"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."

Sorry Ryan, I don't understand your comment of "trying to ruin it". I was just expressing an opinion as to the seeming "unevenness" of the award.
Also don't agree with your statement that we have "ruined" the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and "every other tradition". But, that's your opinion and I respect your right to voice it.

Mudge the misunderstood

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Land of the free because of the brave

If I understand correctly, POWs post KW rec'v the PH automatically.

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Don't touch my junk!!

+1

Extremely well said.

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First I am not a veteran but a citizen with a strong interest in military history and current military policy. I can understand that it would seem uneven or unfair that the Purple Heart is not categorized by severity of the wound. On the other hand as soon as you define categories of wounds and have a first, second, third class PH then the whole point of the award goes by the boards.

In Washington's day the PH was awarded for military merit and that typically meant wounding though it was not necessarily a requirement. After the Revolution the PH was dropped and there were no military awards until the Medal of Honor was created in the Civil War. The PH was reinstituted in 1932 as a way of acknowledging those who had been wounded by enemy action.

As I understand it the best thing about the PH is the simplicity of it. Every other award is a subjective award or in some cases a numerical counter like the Air Medal in Vietnam. The Purple Heart means you were in a place of danger and shed blood because of it. Anyone can respect that. I know of military personnel that when meeting others in the combat arms look first for the PH and judge all the rest of the "fruit salad" on that award.

I have read that many veterans and long service military believe that with the exception of the MOH and the PH all other awards have been systematically devalued over the years and that some of them are considered pretty worthless. I will never forget that after the Grenada operation the US Army for one awarded more medals than they had troops on the ground. On the other hand one of two or three US Army vets to be wounded by a bayonet in Vietnam was not awarded a PH because he left the hospital within 24 hours in order to return to his unit. (He already had two or three Purple Hearts.)

Since there are already devices for indicating multiple awards of the PH I think that grading the PH by wound severity will only serve to lessen the impact of the award over all.

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"I can't understand it, I cut it twice and it's still too short!" Robert F. Dupre' 1923-2010 Go With God.

Sorry Mr. Muddyboots,
I may have misunderstood your comment, But I thought it was some what condescending. My wife's uncle was a Flt. Eng. on a B-26 in the 9th AF in WW2, and he was shot down & died of wounds. His PH along with a picture of his aircraft still hang in our living room. Our Grandchildern still want to hear and learn his story.
I never knew the Man but I do not feel he was a ScrewUp or was unlucky. He died for his Country, right or wrong, and all that is left of his memiory is that "pretty little" piece of metal and plastic.
Respectifully, bill

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The Breaks of Naval Air-Skid Marks in the Sky

I know Muddy can answer for himself, but I want to intervene for a moment.

I respect Mudge and understand the premise for his question, but one doesn't need a WIX-crystal-ball to predict that this thread was likely doomed to slide downhill.

I sincerely doubt that Muddy, or any of our gang here on WIX has anything but the utmost respect for those, like your wife's uncle, who gave all while protecting our nation. A Purple Heart is not only well-deserved, but small thanks in return for a debt that can't be repaid.

By the same token, although I don't know Muddy, I gather from his posts that he has "been there, done that, gotten the t-shirt, and, by the way, a Purple Heart of his own." Because of that, and because the bulk of this thread has revolved around "severity" of wounds (not necessarily KIA) his comment was seemingly directed in that light and also towards his own decoration. I respect Muddy's opinion.

This actually brings us right back to the point of the thread - the decoration can be awarded for anything from a minor wound to a fatal one. Whether the public likes it or not, that's what a (modern) Purple Heart is.

It's no secret, the military profession is overwhelmingly populated by folks who are detail-oriented and success driven. Those who survive tough situations often focus on the negative aspects: mistakes made, performance less than what they always assumed "medal recipients" had, or maybe just a scary event. For some of them the dec only serves to remind of the incident, just realize that the perspective of the vet can be 180-out from the perspective of the civilian. All too often, the civilian has visions of victory parades and Patton speeches, when the vet remembers the sights, sounds, and smells of a time when he wished he could have been somewhere else.

I'm open to discuss anything, but, personally, I was sorry to see this topic pop up. As I mentioned above, judge vets on an individual basis and leave the decs for the shadow box.

Ken

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"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."

OK troops...I'm sorry I didn't make my point a lot clearer. I was, by no means, trying to diminish the award. I was merely trying to expound on a thought that had occurred to me.
I seem to have, inadvertently, opened a can of worms.

Mudge the contrite

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Land of the free because of the brave

Bill, I apologize if my words seem condescending or snide. Your wife's uncle earned far more than a bit of ribbon. He gave everything he had in defense of his country, no award can begin to compensate for that sacrifice but you have to understand my perspective as a wearer- receiving a purple heart is just bad luck to me.

Getting wounded or killed is very often just that: you are in a group of people and they could just as easily got it. When I say you have to be a screwup, I mean it with a great deal of morbid humor: nobody chooses to get shot. I'd trade mine for a cup of coffee and a danish any day. Bet your wife's uncle would have as well, and he probably made the same dark jokes about it that I do. I screwed up by volunteering for the work I was doing when I was wounded.

Your uncle was not fated to die that day. When you put your life on the line day after day, eventually the odds do climb higher than your luck--any vet would agree with me I think. You can't keep placing yourself in harm's way without that lesson being driven like a nail into your heart: you're going to get it eventually unless you have sterling luck. Your uncle's valor was in placing himself in harms way regardless of the odds, knowing full well what it could mean. A purple heart only begins to explain who he was.

When one says "I screwed up" in this context it is simply a joking way of saying "I should have been standing eight inches to the right," or "should of zigged not zagged," Not "I'm a real looser and it is honestly my fault I got hurt." There are screwups, of course. You find them in any profession. But generally they don't find their way into combat zones or stay there very long. Generally the loosers get scared and go away, and the vaueable guys stay and get hurt.

As for that bit of ribbon, I feel I must disagree. Your family's memory of him and what he did for this country and the world is a far greater memorial than a little piece of ribbon and plastic. The award is simply evidence of his valor. It's certainly not reward enough for what he gave up for you and I.

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."