Port au Prince Vs Berlin Airlift?

[JDK]

Thanks for the input, gentlemen,
One of the unseen strength of WIX is the breadth and depth of knowledge on airlifting in today's world. As here, fighter and bomber crews often get the column inches but it's the often overlooked lift guys who do the hard yards of saving a situation in the big picture.

Brad, thank you very much for sharing your insight so frankly, and I for one would like you to know that the effort being put in by the USAF and all other aspects of the US and the US military is deeply appreciated. There may be a few trying to make political capital out of it in a negative way, but I'm sure that the majority (including the French population and that includes their President, btw) are well aware that no-one else is in a position to offer and commit what the US is currently doing.

Military aviation may seem to be all about kills and bombing raids, but if you haven't got control of the logistics, as you've touched on, there's no control. What is being achieved must be appreciated for what it is.

Thank you very much, and fly safe.

Cheers,

[RyanShort1]

I just got home and am just jumping in here without reading very far, but over on the AOPA board this was being discussed yesterday and someone posted this shot which shows just how little ramp space is available for cargo jets...



Ryan

[Dan Jones]

On Sunday a USAF Air Traffic Control Squadron came in and essentially took over the field as far as ATC was concerned.

The issue with planes circling was due to the lack of fuel on the field, and the mandate that every flight in had to arrive with enough fuel on board to take off again. Some arriving flights did not meet that criteria and were refused landing permission.

The field at PAP can handle 747-sized aircraft, but ramp space is limited, so parking is a problem. Until recently there were not enough unloading capability to turn aircraft around quickly enough to generate enough ramp space for all the flights arriving.

Walt

That's not actually accurate, Walt. The issue with planes circling (holding) was that there were far more airplanes there than could be landed. Parking is still very limited, and Haitian ATC was in ruins. I made one of the early civilian flights into the field and we were advised to expect up to 1.5hrs of holding to get in - the traffic was just flooding MTPP. As it turned out we lucked out and came straight in on the approach because two C-130's had departed just ahead of us. Nobody anticipated being able to get fuel there - in fact just today were civilian aircraft finally able to get fuel if required. Planes are being controlled coming into Port-au-Prince now by flow control slot times by the Haitian Flight Ops Coordination Center in Miami. So now instead of having to pack an extra seven or eight thousand pounds (in my case) of fuel to potentially hold, that weight can now go towards payload. While the airport is now under US military ATC control (thank Christ!) the surrounding Haitian airspace is still run by some of the locals and has no radar. As soon as Miami center turns you loose going into MTPP and you're Joses inbound, it's the wild west! It certainly was this morning! Once they turn you back over to the US ATC control on the field you are comparatively safe again. If the USAF wanted to run all of Haitian airspace by AWAC or ship, it would certainly get mine and my crews votes!

Dan

[Jiggersfromsphilly]

Can't the Vinson's awacs help out with this?

[Brad]

Last night we carried a news crew from Charlotte, North Carolina down to Haiti. This is the link to the news story about our crew. I'm in the video marshalling the truck off the ramp of the plane. There are also a shot of me in the still photos, sitting on one of the water trailers.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Mission- ... 94862.html

[Mark Nankivil]

Brad, thank you for the insider's look at what is happening and what the details are. As noted, I want to add my thanks to what you and the others are doing as well - please let them all know how much we appreciate it.

Since the USAF ATC is now in place, has there been an appreciable improvement in the airlift situation? For those looking for fuel, is the Dominican Republic or even Puerto Rico an option to bounce on over to and refuel to head back home (or come into Haiti)? I would imagine for US Military flights, getting fuel at Gitmo might be an option though storage capacity and simply getting it into the base may be an issue.

Thanks again! Mark

[BK]

I an tell you where they are alike. Today a TV reporter was on talking about efforts, and in the background a DC-3/C-47 taxied past!! Just got to wonder if there is a chancce that it flew in the berlin Airlift and this?

That may have been the Remote Area Medical DC-3, a WWII vet. They have been making flights to the island. Via Flightaware it looks like they are headed to the Dominican Republic as I type.

I am very proud to say that this first rate organization is based in my hometown. As you would expect, they are in need of funds to cover the cost of fuel for the plane. Anybody wishing to donate can do so via their website:
http://www.ramusa.org/expeditions/2010/ramhaiti.htm

[RareBear]

My earlier post was based on info I had at the time, and that I believed to be accurate. My apologies for presenting any mis-information to those on this forum.

With great regret.

Walt

[Dan Jones]

My earlier post was based on info I had at the time, and that I believed to be accurate. My apologies for presenting any mis-information to those on this forum.

With great regret.

Walt

No worries, Walt. There was a lot of misinformation floating around at the beginning, the biggest piece of it that I got was that the runway was wrecked and we were going to have to land in the dirt and grass beside it. Fortunately that wasn't the case as the runway is fine and all the lights and navaids are up and running. The airport fuel system is damaged and the possibility exists for the fuel to be contaminated, therefor no fuel. But yesterday a fuel truck was there that I presume drove over from the DR and World Fuel told me they have half a million gallons on tap for anyone who needs it - though I'm sure you still have to pay for it! Besides that, the Canadian Air Force delivered a brand new air force fuel truck a couple of days ago, driving it out the back of a C-17 and then hooking up to the airplane for the airplane to fill up!

I shudder to think of what the situation there would be like had the United States not taken over and got things up and running. The amount of manpower, aid, and material in Port-au-Prince and the surrounding area is just staggering. It's exactly the same amount and kind of response you would expect to see had Miami had the earthquake. A lot of people the world over claim to hate the US, but you guys are always the first ones there when something like this happens. I'm proud to be a Canadian, but without a doubt the United States is the greatest, and most generous nation on earth.

Dan

[JDK]

Thanks again for the responses, particularly from those who've got better things to do like fly the flights!

I've been working on a blog post, and I've written up some material (and lifted other bits from Wiki for simplicity) relating to aspects of the Berlin airlift and some comparisons or contrasts. I'm interested in comment, correction or further details on any aspect/s.

And (most importantly) I'd like to add that it is in part an attempt to highlight the often under-appreciated work of these, military and civilian, who fly freight and passengers in these tense and difficult situations.

Berlin's Airlift
The story of the Berlin Airlift - Operation Vittles for the US forces, Operation Plainfair for the RAF (and Operation Pelican for a small group of RAAF crews) - is a fascinating and well documented achievement of 'simple' logistics over force majure. For a brief overview from Wikipedia: "The Berlin Blockade (24 June 1948 – 12 May 1949) was one of the first major international crises of the Cold War. During the multinational occupation of post-World War II Germany, the Soviet Union blocked the Western Allies' railway and road access to the sectors of Berlin under their control. Their aim was to force the western powers to allow the Soviet zone to start supplying Berlin with food and fuel, thereby giving the Soviets practical control over the entire city. In response, the Western Allies organized the Berlin Airlift to carry supplies to the people in West Berlin. The over 4,000 tons per day required by Berlin during the airlift totaled, for example, over ten times the volume that the encircled German 6th Army required six years earlier at the Battle of Stalingrad."

"The United States Air Force, Royal Air Force, and other Commonwealth nations flew over 200,000 flights providing 13,000 tons of food daily to Berlin in an operation lasting almost a year. By the spring of 1949, the effort was clearly succeeding, and by April the airlift was delivering more cargo than had previously flowed into the city by rail. The success of the Airlift was humiliating to the Soviets, who had repeatedly claimed it could never work. When it became clear that it did work, the blockade was lifted in May." More detail on Wiki, as per my previous link.

Contrasts and Comparisons.
The most crucial difference is, of course, size. In 1948, the western powers were trying to keep 3/4 of a city alive. Berlin's population had been reduced by war from a pre-war 4.6 million to 2.8. In Haiti, the current population is given as 10 million. Berlin was a city in runs due to war, but people had adapted and many services and infrastructure worked - even the black market was systematised and effective. While Haiti is also looking like 'it has been bombed' there are key differences in the effect on infrastructure, and it has been clear from news reports that in many essentials law and order as well as governance have broken down.

There are many similarities. Although the Berlin Airlift was primarily a joint military operation, it did initially have a number of civilian fliers, as does the Haiti operation today. From Wikipedia again; "British European Airways (BEA) co-ordinated all British civil aircraft operations. Apart from BEA itself, the participating airlines included British Overseas Airways Corporation (BOAC) and most British independent airlines of that era - eg Eagle Aviation, Silver City Airways, British South American Airways (BSAA), the Lancashire Aircraft Corporation, Airwork, Air Flight, Aquila Airways (with flying boats) Flight Refuelling, Skyways, Scottish Airlines and Ciro's Aviation. Altogether, BEA was responsible to the RAF for the direction and operation of 25 British airlines taking part in Operation Plainfare."

While both operations are seen to some degree as being almost 'turnkey' in deploying existing resources in pre-planned and trained scenarios, that is actually not the case. The US military has an experienced airlift capability, with current operations underway, but I doubt that a scenario like this - with the scale and joint operation requirements as they are - is something even they would have planned for. Morale was an issue in 1948, due to the initial poor utilisation of the crews and aircraft and postwar wind downs of all the forces. Today the complex politics of a significantly wider multi-national and civilian and military operation causes frustration and issues for the planners and crews. Logistics and addressing bottlenecks by improving those logistics (by many extempore and new ways) were, and are, absolute priorities in both cases.

While there is gunfire and looting, there is no armed standoff with a recently combat-hardened army and air forces as there was against the Russians in 1948. One factor that must have been in the minds of all aircrew , groundcrew and the Berliners and planners was what were the Russians going to do next? Harassment was carried out by Russian fighter aircraft, with collisions and loss of life. It is one of the quirks of history that not only did the Western Allies face down the Russians, but that no one at the time probably seriously expected the Russians to fold as they did.

The difference between an accidental collision by a potential enemy trying to scare you and an accidental collision between two aid aircraft in the wrong place at the same time is nothing - and the crews flying into Haiti are facing a remarkably similar challenge, despite the half century gap. However the modern crews at least do not face the threat of a suddenly unleashed overwhelming attack from the East.

In the case of Berlin, not only were there several airports (Tempelhof and Gatow Airports, as well as Tegel Airport, built during the airlift) but also the RAF used Short Sunderlands and Hythe flying boats to fly supplies into the Havel river, and thanks to their anti-corrosion protection, they were used to carry the vital baking and other salts. Today there is a very different maritime element being provided by the carrier the USS Carl Vinson steaming offshore. Currently there is only the main airport in use in Haiti, although it is hoped to bring a second smaller one into use as well as an airport in the neighbouring Dominican Republic. It is also hoped to bring ports and ground transport into play as soon as possible, and part of the modern airlift is bringing in heavy equipment to do so.

Amazingly, there is at least one direct link between the Haiti airlift and the Berlin one. Hundreds of C-47s and Dakotas - the military versions of the DC-3 - were vital in the Berlin operations for the British and the Americans. At least one DC-3, an ex-W.W.II veteran aircraft operated by Remote Area Medical (RAM an all-volunteer charitable organisation) is flying into Haiti. It is an old aviation axiom that the only replacement for a DC-3 is another DC-3, but yet again the old 'Goony Bird' is there when it counts, for real.

While the DC-3s and all the other younger aircraft are vital, it is the crews and the vast support network of others who keep them and their aircraft able to fly that make it all possible. Thanks must go to them, both then, and now.

Thanks in advance for feedback.

[JDK]

Dupe post

Much of this attempt to compare the relief effort in Haiti with the Berlin Airlift makes no sense to me, but here is an actual parallel between the two events, C-54/DC-4 type aircraft delivered supplies in both of the occurences:

http://sites.google.com/site/historical ... oundation/

[RyanShort1]

Brad,

This may seem silly, but would it be possible to fly one of the missions into Haiti with "The Spirit of WIX" on the side?

Ryan

[Django]

Dan and Brad, God bless you and your crews for your efforts, and a sincere thank you from me.

[JDK]

Much of this attempt to compare the relief effort in Haiti with the Berlin Airlift makes no sense to me, but here is an actual parallel between the two events, C-54/DC-4 type aircraft delivered supplies in both of the occurences.

G'day Jim,
Firstly thanks for the pointer - I'll pick that up, and in a way that answers your wondering... Anyway, there are a number of reasons why I've decided to look at the two airlifts, and briefly:

It's often stated that those that don't understand history are condemned to repeat it. Historians (particularly) would like to believe that an understanding of history informs current actions and decisions. Frankly, at times, that takes some swallowing, but it's often repeated, so some people seem to believe it.

Haiti is aviation history being made right now, aviation history is what the WIX board is about.

We like to believe that the problems we face now, today, are tough - and those that were faced in the past are easier for us to understand because we know what happened next. That's a falacy from hindsight, and putting yourself in the shoes of those facing the Berlin situation (in role play if you like) shows how things could have been very different.

Lastly, I'm interested in aviation history. Without context (what does it compare to, size, complexity etc.) some of our understanding is meaningless. I'm a writer, as one of the ways I try to understand things is to research and write them up - it's like a self set exam.

A closer look at both airlifts shows that the initial over-simplistic understanding and expectation of what they are about is shown up by the depth of complexity. Using examples from either to compare to the other explores aspects of the story that might not otherwise occur. Sometimes there are direct comparisons, sometimes one is obviously hugely different. This isn't an exercise in saying one was 'better' or 'worse' than the other, such taxonomic comparisons are stupid - just a means of understanding both.

Or we can be spoon-fed other's analysis from the TV media everyone grouches about. If we don't think for ourselves, who will?

Regards,