Museum of Flight B-17F when it was a flyer

[Pat Carry]

The last one is very interesting with the Connie in the background. It sucks they are losing this storage facility. Placing them outside after all the fine work that has been done would be way bad.

[GARY HILTON]

Fortress17W.......welcome to WIX! Great pis as well...thanks for sharing. I can't remember what year it was, but pretty sure it was '98-'99....I used to go to Seattle quite a bit in my 18 wheeler....Boeing Field was my favorite truckstop in that area....I used to be able to park my rig underneath the wings of the 747 that was slated for the museum...(I think it may have been the 1st 747 built???) I would hang out at the musuem all weekend, ride my bicycle around to the other side of the airport , where there was an excellent pilot shop, with a fantastic collection of aviation related books and mags...take them back to the 24 hr restauraunt....Randy's...and read for half the night....Cool restaraunt as well with the aviation theme and lots of model aircraft hanging around.
One of the times I was out there, as I was on my bike, I happened to go by one of the Boeing hangars where the large doors were opened...I couldn't believe my eyes , as I saw the Boeing 307 sitting in there, all nice and shiny under the lights...The last time I had seen this bird, was when she was in Arizona....at Pima...This was just before they ran her out fuel and put her in the Sound....By chance, would you have any pics of this Boeing warbird???

[B-17 Buff]

Always nice to see pics of Boeing Bee, she doesnt get to be enjoyed by on lookers enough. Looking at her never gets tiring... for some reason She's my favourite restored fort, though I love them all! I was really disappointed I didnt get to see her when I was there.. even after badgering the museum staff! I still cant believe at the time I didnt know she was just behind those doors of plant 2!!

There's no way she's going outside... I'll fly over and protest if I have to.. tie myself to her or something!!

[Lynn Allen]

Thanks for the photo's. Which B-29 is next to her in your last photo??

Lynn

[mustangdriver]

Lynn, I believe that is the Museum of Flight's B-29.

[Second Air Force]

Thanks for the photo's. Which B-29 is next to her in your last photo??

Lynn

44-69729, 498th Bomb Group in WWII, code T 54.

S

[sledge39]

.
...N17W hauling retardant at Hemet, CA...August, 1979...

[spookythecat]

Thanks for the photo's. Which B-29 is next to her in your last photo??

Lynn

That's T Square 54, The M.O.F.'s. It's still got a bit of restoration work but it looks real good so far. I believe most, if not all, of the turrets work. I got to operate the upper aft one when I saw it.

Here are pics----> http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=t%20squ ... N00#page=5

[avenger2504]

A very nice B17F. So she isn't flown anymore?

[Fortress17W]

...N17W hauling retardant at Hemet, CA...August, 1979...

Awesome photos! Neat seeing photos of N17W flying in that scheme. Thanks for posting them.

One of the times I was out there, as I was on my bike, I happened to go by one of the Boeing hangars where the large doors were opened...I couldn't believe my eyes , as I saw the Boeing 307 sitting in there, all nice and shiny under the lights...The last time I had seen this bird, was when she was in Arizona....at Pima...This was just before they ran her out fuel and put her in the Sound....By chance, would you have any pics of this Boeing warbird???

Yes, I do have photos of the 307 Stratoliner, before it was restored and after both restorations. I'll see about scanning a few of them.

A very nice B17F. So she isn't flown anymore?

N17W hasn't flown since December 2003, and the Museum of Flight has no plans for further operation. Reasons I have heard are the costs of insurance and training and maintaining a crew.

Whether or not N17W would fly again was one of the big questions through the 1990s. The final decision was apparently to maintain 782 in flying condition for 5 years after the restoration was finished. This is mentioned in the book on N17W published by the Museum in 1998, The B-17 Remembered, on page 227. Originally, more extensive operation was intended during those 5 years, as the book mentions fifteen flights were scheduled for dignitaries and media. I also remember several of the restoration volunteers wanted to take N17W to Oshkosh at least once. However, many (most?) of those dignitary flights did not happen, and N17W made no airshow appearances in that 5 year period.


-Jon Davis

[mustangdriver]

Part of the donation agreement is that it would not be flown.

[Pat Carry]

Always nice to see pics of Boeing Bee, she doesnt get to be enjoyed by on lookers enough. Looking at her never gets tiring... for some reason She's my favourite restored fort, though I love them all! I was really disappointed I didnt get to see her when I was there.. even after badgering the museum staff! I still cant believe at the time I didnt know she was just behind those doors of plant 2!!

There's no way she's going outside... I'll fly over and protest if I have to.. tie myself to her or something!!

Pick me up. I'll go over there with you.

[Fortress17W]

Part of the donation agreement is that it would not be flown.

I've seen this written on online forums before, but it doesn't seem to mesh with history or written accounts.

N17W clearly did fly several times under Museum of Flight ownership (purchased by MoF in 1990, flown in 1991 and ~7 times between 1998 and 2003). Also, nobody from the Museum or the restoration team has mentioned anything about an agreement prohibiting them from flying it when I've asked. Nothing like that comes up in the Museum's own 1998 book on N17W, which instead talks about the planned 5-year post-restoration flying period, which happened between 1998 and 2003.

Also, the phrase "donation agreement" is incorrect, since N17W wasn't donated to the Museum of Flight. The MoF purchased N17W in 1990 from the Richardson estate for $750,000.

The museum had hoped Richardson would give them N17W, but the museum's intention at the time to ground the B-17 and hang it in the Great Gallery if they gained ownership caused friction between Richardson and the museum. In early 1990 this even led Richardson to consider selling N17W to the National Warplane Museum at Geneseo, since he wanted the B-17F to remain flyable.

The Seattle Times ran an article on May 16, 1990 which covered some of these issues. Some quotes from the article:

"The B-17 wasn't bequeathed to the Museum of Flight because its owner had differences with the museum director, according to Willard and another associate of the owner, who died last month."

"Lipps and Willard - who worked once a week for Richardson over the past year - also said Richardson didn't want his B-17, now stored in New York, taken out of flying condition and hung in the gallery. Richardson loved to fly it, said Willard, who worked as museum bookkeeper and archivist before becoming Richardson's aide."

In any case, the 5 year flying period ended 6 years ago, and N17W is now a static exhibit (albeit one in need of an indoor display location so it can actually be exhibited).

So, any more photos out there? I could scan and post more of mine, but I've already seen those.

-Jon Davis

[bomberflight]

These are scans I made from Kodacrome 35mm slides I took at Duxford when they were filming the movie "Memphis Belle in 1989 .....

[Hal B]

Part of the donation agreement is that it would not be flown.

I've seen this written on online forums before, but it doesn't seem to mesh with history or written accounts
...

The museum had hoped Richardson would give them N17W, but the museum's intention at the time to ground the B-17 and hang it in the Great Gallery if they gained ownership caused friction between Richardson and the museum. In early 1990 this even led Richardson to consider selling N17W to the National Warplane Museum at Geneseo, since he wanted the B-17F to remain flyable.

...

-Jon Davis

Thats a pretty good explanation of what I remember went on before the MOF acquired N17W.