Warbird Information Exchange

What is with all the damage just behind the engine cowling??? Looks like this was almost a one-way ticket!?

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S.

If your point of interest is in fact the plane seen in the graveyard in BYOOL, based solely on the name I would suggest that it is one of the two aircraft that flew with the 351st. Both were B-17 Fs as seen in the screen cap.


Don't know if I can post pictures...there is a link to the film sequence below.

According to Baugher's excellent reference page 5823 returned to USA in June 1944...went to the RFC at Ontario (convenient to Hollywood) in May 1945.

A plane by the same name also flew with the 351st and was salvaged in June 45--apparently overseas.

It would be unlikely that both planes by the same name flew concurrently in the same Group and Squadron, so it could well be that--the evidence being what it is--the plane in the movie is 42-5823.

Lockheed/Vega B-17F-25-VE Fortress

42-5823 (351st BG) returned to USA Jun 1944. To RFC Ontario, CA May 7, 1945

42-6151 (351st BG) salvaged Jun 11, 1945

If you want to see the whole graveyard scene, it is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU0d3DVcKoY

The first and best sighting of ROUND ? TRIP appears at 3:00/6:19

It is my opinion that the nose numbers are RFC stock numbers and have nothing to do with the s/n or c/n of the plane.

UPDATE/EDIT: 42-5823 was apparently reclassified as TB-40 and posted to Yuma, AZ gunnery range. It appears to have sustained Cat 3 damage from a Friendly Fire shoot down on 20NOV44.

Hi "the330thbg",
The TBM picture came from Hill Goodspeed at the NM of NA in P'cola. He only knew who was flying the plane and the pilot's unit. The spectulation was that the a/c received flak damage. However, it looks more like the TBM flew into another plane's prop. But, this is only a theory.

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The Breaks of Naval Air-Skid Marks in the Sky

I agree., looks like prop damage vs. flak.., unless the shot 'sliced' through the aircraft. Cool shot regardless!!!

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S.

From my research Of Herbert "Mickey Schussler Bombardier 385th 550th

May 1, 1944 #04 Mission #: 102. Destination: Crossbow [name for V-2 sites located in LeGrosseollier, Germany] Pilot: Dolan.
Aircraft Serial: 42-5897. Aircraft Name: “Round Trip Jack”. 6:45 hours. (2:0 night flight) (B-17F) Lead by Pilot Hamilton.
42-5897/ “Round Trip Jack” survived the war was salvaged May 29, 1945.
I "had" a photo of this B-17 until my puter went down like a B-17 over ShhhhWhinnneFurt.
If anyone has a picture of this B-17, please send me a PM
Thanks in advance.

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Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.

Reference the BYOOL film clip of "Round Trip?" ... is that a B-17F ... or just a G with the chin turret removed? It has the late cheek window and no framing/gun ports in the nose glass.

That is a very good observation. You can freeze frame the movie and look closely at the underside of the nose as the camera pans the leading edges from right to left. Also in the zoom in on the plexi. There does not appear to be any alteration to the underside of the nose where a chin turret would have been. No variation in paint color or any signs of metal work.

As to the cheek windows I have always thought of them a late-F modification. And I believe some very late F's received chin turrets before the G model was finalized.

Don't forget that this plane appears to have been reclassified as a TB-40 so there could have been additional mods not visible.

The airplane in the photo is a B-17F; the Cheek gun installation on almost all B-17G airplanes is full forward on the port side nose followed by two small windows over the navigator table. Several B-17 reference books clearly show detailed photos with this distinction.

See:
Squadron Signal Publications B-17 IN ACTION

B-17 IN DETAIL AND SCALE

TonyM.

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

The BYOOL B-17 has really caught my interest.

Excellent catch on the cheek windows, Tony. I see that the cheek window stagger is opposite on the B-17G, but I'm used to seeing B-17F's with flat cheek windows that had ball/socket joints for the .50 barrel.

Were some B-17F's modified or built with the late style cheek fairings, but retained the opposite stagger? Something on the film airplane just doesn't look right ... almost like paper mache over the small windows just above the cheek gun socket, and what looks like paint touch-up - or maybe studio weathering?

BTW, notice in the film clip that the actor swings up into the nose and then, by the way the nose shakes as he walks, he's in a studio prop, but with the same style cheek windows ... consistency.

My last question - would such a late B-17F have had a frame-less nose blister or ... was it changed for the film ... or possibly a part swap-out after damage to the original with a new-stock item?

bump for an answer on the type (rather than location) of cheek windows on the F vs. the G

I thought youall might be interested in this pic off the USAF History site:
LOS ANGELES (AFPN) -- Tech. Sgt. Paul Posti Sr.'s .38-claliber Smith and Wesson revolver and leather
bomber jacket will soon be on display at the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio.
(U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Cortchie Welch)

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The Breaks of Naval Air-Skid Marks in the Sky

My grandfather was a B-17 Bombardier with the 385th in both "Round Trip Ticket II" and "Round Trip Ticket III", as well some some random flights in other planes. Spent some time with Ruby's Raiders as well. He flew a total of two full tours for 50 Missions, and earned the Distinguished Flying Cross as well. He is still alive and well at 92 years old. I have some pictures, but i have no idea how to add them here.

Gil

42-5897 Roundtrip Jack 550th BS 385thBG



42-30414 or 42-30422 Roundtrip Ticket II 549th BS, 385th BG


42-30827 Roundtrip Ticket III 549th BS, 385th BG


gpjd, when did he serve with the group? My grandfather was also a bombardier in the 385th (550th BS) with the Fryer crew from the states until he was shot down on the Oct 20th, 1943 mission to Duren. I have lots more information and a few more photos on my Google Page!

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There were several variations in the cheek windows. You can see the Vega-style bulged windows in the Roundtrip Jack pictures above. Roundtrip Ticket II has the late cheek windows. Lots of famous B-17s (Memphis Belle, Hell's Angels) had the early flat cheek windows. Here's an F with the late cheek windows; "Mary Ellen II", one of my grandpa's planes.

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Ok, well... this is crazy, since you just posted a picture of my grandfather. WOW! The fourth picture down, the crew shot, front row, second from the right... that is my Grandfather. That is amazing. He was in the 549th. He flew 50 missions between February 20th, 1944 through April 16th of 1945.

Here is a summary of his service from the wwiimemorial registry: Gilbert D'Alonzo

ENLISTED IN THE 111TH INFANTRY, 28TH DIVISION ON JANUARY 23, 1941. COMMISSIONED ON JUNE 19, 1943. SERVED AS A BOMBARDIER WITH THE 549TH SQUADRON, 385TH GROUP, 8TH AIR FORCE, B-17 BOMBERS. FLEW A TOUR OF 30 MISSIONS. CAME BACK TO THE U.S., THEN RETURNED AND FLEW 20 MORE MISSIONS FOR A TOTAL OF 50 MISSIONS. PARTICIPATED IN THE FOLLOWING BATTLES: AIR OFFENSIVE OF EUROPE, D-DAY NORMANDY, NORTHERN FRANCE, RHINELAND, ARDENNES WD GO 33 AND 45, CENTRAL EUROPE WD GO 40 AND 45. AWARDED A TOTAL OF 6 SERVICE STARS. DECORATIONS: DISTINGUISHED FLYING CROSS GO 222 3D 1944, AIR MEDAL WITH 7TH CLUSTER GO 807 3D 1945, EUROPEAN-AFRICAN-MIDDLE EASTERN RIBBON WD CIR 62/44 AND AMERICAN DEFENSE RIBBON WD CIR 27/44.

I am very sorry to hear about your Grandfather. God bless him, and you... thanks to him for his service.

I have more pictures that I could post if someone would tell me how to do it.
Gil