Urbana B-17 "Champagne Lady" Update 25 June 2010

Dan Newcomb · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:13 pm

Thanks for posting these. I know good work when I see it. I am truly impressed. I wish I had a library of blue prints like that! Wow!

Dan

RAMC181 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:31 pm

Shay wrote:

Actually if I'm not mistaken, This is conglomeration of atleast 3 maybe 4 airframes. IIRC the Serial No.s are listed on previous threads. And the Ball turret depicted is the one from the Bar in Greenly CO.

I was asked about this a while back on the 401st Forum:

Quote:

44-85813 is the serial number of the plane currently registered as N3154S (formerly N6694C), which is the Registry of what will be the result of the Urbana rebuild.
However, it incorporates parts from a number of airframes, and their histories are quite interesting.

Looking at the bits and pieces as they arrived, plus info made available from the restoration team...

44-83316: Fuselage centre section.
'316 was a B-17G-75-DL, sold by the Air Force to 20th Century Fox in 1964 and used as a prop for the 12 O'clock High TV series. The forward fuselage of '316 had already been fitted to 44-85813 in an earlier rebuild sometime between 1967 and 1983.

44-83525: Tail.
'525 was a B-17G-85-DL, and was the last B-17 to remain at the Davis Mothan storage yard, being there until 1967. After film work, including "The War Lover", and the rounds of various museums she was displayed as Suzy Q in Florida until damaged in Hurricane Andrew, currently believed to be under restoration. Her Civil Registration is N83525.

44-83722: Wings and Fuselage parts.
B-17G-95-DL '722 was converted from a B-17G to a B-17H/SB-17G air-sea rescue aircraft with a lifeboat underneath, then became a training version of the same (TB-17H) before being used as a target for Atom Bomb tests in Nevada until 1965. The remaining hulk was used for spare parts, ending up being owned by the same chap as '525.

44-85813: Parts and identity.
B-17G-110-VE '813 was used by the Curtiss-Wright Corporation from 1945 to 1966 as an turboprop engine testbed (EB-17G/JB-17G), with a fifth powerplant fitted to the nose. After that (around 1969-70) she was rebuilt to standard using the forward fuselage from '316 and flown as a firebombing tanker before crashing in 1980.

So... should she really be called 44-83316, as that's where 2/3 of the fuselage comes from, or 44-83722 due to having her wings? :wink:

All the best,
PB

Shay · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:28 pm

Thanks good pics and good info.

Perhaps it's a matter of what Data plates they have. I plan on going again this saturday, so I'll have to ask.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Maverick · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:24 pm

Good explanation to a complicated question, How many airplanes involved in restoring Champaign Lady? But a couple corrections are necessary.

44-83316 was the donor for the aft fuselage from station 6 to station 11. Actually everything in this section was replaced with new parts except for the ball turret platform and bulkhead 7.

44-83722 is the donor for the bomb bay and flight deck part of the fuselage from station 5 to station 3. All of the skins, longitudinal stiffeners and most of the circumferential stiffeners were replaced. 722 was missing everything forward of station 3. Station 3 forward was built from plans with all new parts, except the chin turret ring. The outboard wing sections are also from 722.

44-85813 is the donor for the inboard wing sections, the data plate and FAA registration. Part of the fuselage section of 813 was used by Tom Reilly in the restoration of Liberty Bell and is not part of Champaign Lady restoration.

Otherwise it's a good recap of what the make up of Champaign Lady will be.
Its fair to say that many other parts used in the restoration will come from other unknown donors. The stinger tail we have comes from Tom Wilson's shop. The radio room will be built next from plans. These will complete the fuselage.

aerovin · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:40 pm

A few comments: 44-83525 was not used in The War Lover in 1961...it was still in storage at Davis Monthan, remaining there until 1967 when Tallmantz got it.

As for 44-85813, I had my own speculations but Maverick, above, seems to have the definitive answer as to where this airplane is coming from. Sounds like he knows.

Still, some photos for fun:

The outer wing panels from 44-83722 at the Aero Trader facility in 1987, still with Air-Sea Rescue markings.

Part of the remaining tail section of 44-83722 and what I think is part of the center section wing structure in the left foreground.

More of that wing structure, another view of the tail, and the remnants of N9324Z (now at Fantasy of Flight)

44-85813 at the crash site in 1988....showing much of wing structure intact. It would seem this is where the wing center sections are coming from.

RAMC181 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:45 pm

Thanks chaps,

My quoted post was made back in 2006ish, when things at Urbana were in the early stages, and was as correct as I could ascertain from information at the time.
Thank you for the updated info, I'll pass it on the the rest of the 401BG Association in due course.

All the best,
PB

RAMC181 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:50 pm

Scott, did anyone ever identify which airframes the two red and white Cheyenne tail turrets visible in your photo came from?

TTFN,
PB

aerovin · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:35 pm

RAMC181 wrote:

Scott, did anyone ever identify which airframes the two red and white Cheyenne tail turrets visible in your photo came from?

Short answer: no. I always supposed they came off Aircraft Specialties tankers. Probably one is from N3193G and the other, maybe N620L or N621L. I think there was some mixing and matching going on through the years.

Warbirdjohn · **Joined:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:21 am **Posts:** 21

Shay wrote:

. I plan on going again this saturday, so I'll have to ask.

Can we get just as many great pics this time around as well? I think watching a restoration like this is very intriguing.

John

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:55 pm

So why did Kermit let the tail from 525 go? Is he building a new tail from scratch for it?

By the way, have you ever watched the movie Con Air and seen a B-17 forward fuselage in the background of the boneyard scenes? Don't get excited - it was only CGI

aerovin · **Posted:** Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:08 am

Chris Brame wrote:

So why did Kermit let the tail from 525 go? Is he building a new tail from scratch for it?

(

I think they are referring to only the vertical stabilizer from '525. For some reason I think the original was removed at some point and replaced with the one that is on the airplane now. The last time I was at the CAF hangar at Falcon Field, AZ, the vertical stabilizer for 44-83316 was stuck in the corner.

Maverick · **Posted:** Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:20 pm

You are correct. Champaign Lady only has the vertical stab from 525.

Maverick · **Posted:** Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:21 pm

You are correct. Champaign Lady only has the vertical stab from 525.

Shay · **Posted:** Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:48 am

Sorry guys, no pictures for this weekend. Yesterday I woke to 20 degrees F and a house with no heat. So I had to deal with that. (Woulda just sucked it up for you guys but my wife and kids don't suffer in silence.

) But it sounds like Maverick might have more than a few to share.

Maverick - You mentioned, the nose forward of the flight deck is obiviously all new build with the exception of the chin-turret ring. Where did that come from?

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Maverick · **Posted:** Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:06 pm

No way of knowing for sure. Part of many loose parts provided by Tom Reilly.

Warbird Information Exchange

Urbana B-17 "Champagne Lady" Update 25 June 2010

Who is online