Some one that knows C-97 QEC's
Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:08 pm
So when these set for a while all the oil drains from the hopper tank, did they just crank with spark plugs out and let the scavenge pumps refill or what?
I would like to see a QEC manual, anything around in PDF?
I would like to see a QEC manual, anything around in PDF?
Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:06 pm
Oil shut off valves are your friend. just be sure they are wired with a cut out for the starter so you don't fire it up with no oil supply 
Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:04 pm
If your C-97 is anything like our A-26 as the TOs go, you will not find a QEC book. You will have to use the engine manual, and subsystems sections to make sure all is correct. I have found the parts manual very helpfull in locating what goes where.
Kurt
Kurt
Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:11 pm
The C-119 manual does not have anything about QEC build up either.
Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:20 pm
Hi engguy,
From what I read in this thread, I'm not sure what you are looking for. But it looks like you are looking for information on the C-97 QEC (Quick Engine Change).
I still have my manual for the C-124 I crewed. It is titled (1C-124A-2-4 Power Plant) and covers the QEC.
I never worked on the C-97. However, a long time ago, 1961, I went to engine conditioning school at Sheppard AFB. The school focused on the R4360-59B used on the C-97 and I am sure we used the similar numbered tech order. It should be (1C-97A-2-4).
From what I read in this thread, I'm not sure what you are looking for. But it looks like you are looking for information on the C-97 QEC (Quick Engine Change).
I still have my manual for the C-124 I crewed. It is titled (1C-124A-2-4 Power Plant) and covers the QEC.
I never worked on the C-97. However, a long time ago, 1961, I went to engine conditioning school at Sheppard AFB. The school focused on the R4360-59B used on the C-97 and I am sure we used the similar numbered tech order. It should be (1C-97A-2-4).
Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:34 pm
I'm looking for plumbing and electrical, there is a nice lack of any info on these things.
I got alot of it figured out, but in the dark on some things.
I got alot of it figured out, but in the dark on some things.
Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:42 pm
Exactly what do you need? Starting procedures?
I will see what I can dig up next time I'm at the Hangar.
I will see what I can dig up next time I'm at the Hangar.
Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:02 pm
Good description of the oil scavenge system, and is the oil coolers output electrical valve always open or always closed, and when it is closed where does the scavenge oil go then? Inother words hows it work?
A good description of the propeller pitch system on the nose/gear case?
Is the tube that goes to the top of oil tank and dead ends on the mid right hand side between the engine mount, for the inflight oil transfer, and is it the inlet tube?
Divided hopper tank? Right side for, turbo?
A good description of the propeller pitch system on the nose/gear case?
Is the tube that goes to the top of oil tank and dead ends on the mid right hand side between the engine mount, for the inflight oil transfer, and is it the inlet tube?
Divided hopper tank? Right side for, turbo?
Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:27 am
Prop system is self contained and not dependant on the engine. It can be serviced in flight if necessary with engine oil.
Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:21 pm
b29flteng wrote:Prop system is self contained and not dependant on the engine. It can be serviced in flight if necessary with engine oil.
I knew that, since it has its own oil supply as well as solenoid valves to use engine oil. Need electrical diagrams, and a good explanation of how it works. I guess information is the key word here.
Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:56 pm
Here is a description of oil system as it is installed on the aircraft.
Each engine has an individual oil system which includes an engine oil tank, two oil coolers, and an oil control thermostat. The engine oil tank has a capacity of 32.5 US gallons and an expansion space of 7 US gallons. Oil cooler flaps switches, when in the AUTO position, cause the thermostat to automatically regulate oil temperature by operating the oil cooler flaps to allow the proper amount of cooling air to flow through the oil coolers. There was also an oil flow regulator valve to bypass the cooler at high pressure and viscosity. An oil dilution system is incorporated into the system to aid in cold weather starting. There was also a forward and rear oil transfer tank in the fuselage of 56 US gallons each to replenish individual engines on longer flights. On our TX ANG KC-97L's we also had a 55 gallon drum on the upper deck that could be gravity fed into the forward transfer tank. We sometimes took additional 5 gallons cans on a pallet to pour into the 55 gallon drum.
There is a nacelle tank and I assume you are referring to it as a "hopper" tank on the C-97 system. (My C-45 has what's called a "hopper" tank mod that directs oil internally in the tank from the return to the supply outlets to warm it up faster). There is no electrical valve on the C-97 oil cooler. There is a firewall shutoff valve that is between the oil tank and engine (on the supply side) to shutoff supply of oil in an emergency/fire that is part of the "gang-bar" switches on the overhead panel.
The procedures are the same on all radial engines that become liquid
locked, pull necessary lower plugs and rotate the engine until oil is drained
and forced from the combustion chambers. There are a few people that will argue that liquid locks can be cleared by turning an engine backwards, but they are misinformed dumb-asses that will get you killed. The scavenge pump is a mechanical pump/s that turns when the engine turns, just like the engine oil pump. Its purpose is to return rocker arm assembly and crankcase / nosecase / accessorycase oil to the tank. It has a greater pumping capacity than the engine oil pump so that it can always return the oil to the tank faster than it is pumped into the engine.
As previously mentioned the prop system for the most part is a non rotating independent external system on the 4360. In addition to normal governing operation common to all constant speed props there were provisions for prop synchronization between engines, reversing and electric prop deicing.
I can fax you copies of the system diagrams out of the KC-97 manuals if you would like and get me your contact info.
Each engine has an individual oil system which includes an engine oil tank, two oil coolers, and an oil control thermostat. The engine oil tank has a capacity of 32.5 US gallons and an expansion space of 7 US gallons. Oil cooler flaps switches, when in the AUTO position, cause the thermostat to automatically regulate oil temperature by operating the oil cooler flaps to allow the proper amount of cooling air to flow through the oil coolers. There was also an oil flow regulator valve to bypass the cooler at high pressure and viscosity. An oil dilution system is incorporated into the system to aid in cold weather starting. There was also a forward and rear oil transfer tank in the fuselage of 56 US gallons each to replenish individual engines on longer flights. On our TX ANG KC-97L's we also had a 55 gallon drum on the upper deck that could be gravity fed into the forward transfer tank. We sometimes took additional 5 gallons cans on a pallet to pour into the 55 gallon drum.
There is a nacelle tank and I assume you are referring to it as a "hopper" tank on the C-97 system. (My C-45 has what's called a "hopper" tank mod that directs oil internally in the tank from the return to the supply outlets to warm it up faster). There is no electrical valve on the C-97 oil cooler. There is a firewall shutoff valve that is between the oil tank and engine (on the supply side) to shutoff supply of oil in an emergency/fire that is part of the "gang-bar" switches on the overhead panel.
The procedures are the same on all radial engines that become liquid
locked, pull necessary lower plugs and rotate the engine until oil is drained
and forced from the combustion chambers. There are a few people that will argue that liquid locks can be cleared by turning an engine backwards, but they are misinformed dumb-asses that will get you killed. The scavenge pump is a mechanical pump/s that turns when the engine turns, just like the engine oil pump. Its purpose is to return rocker arm assembly and crankcase / nosecase / accessorycase oil to the tank. It has a greater pumping capacity than the engine oil pump so that it can always return the oil to the tank faster than it is pumped into the engine.
As previously mentioned the prop system for the most part is a non rotating independent external system on the 4360. In addition to normal governing operation common to all constant speed props there were provisions for prop synchronization between engines, reversing and electric prop deicing.
I can fax you copies of the system diagrams out of the KC-97 manuals if you would like and get me your contact info.
Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:47 am
Info sent, email is empty?
Liquid locked? The question was of the crankcase filling with oil, not the cylinders.
Did you know the lower intake manifolds have drains on these.
I bet the lazy military guys, turned em backwards in hopes they would drain.
Where is scavenge return to tank? Just oil coolers?
Liquid locked? The question was of the crankcase filling with oil, not the cylinders.
Did you know the lower intake manifolds have drains on these.
I bet the lazy military guys, turned em backwards in hopes they would drain.
Where is scavenge return to tank? Just oil coolers?
Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:11 pm
The crankcase will not fill with oil, just the lower cylinders and the only CORRECT way to clear them is to pull the plugs and drain the cylinders.
The drains on the manifolds would be used to drain oil that flows into them thru a open lower intake valve, not in the event of a liquid lock.
Most liquid locks occure on one cylinder, but I have had them occure on several at once. The A-26 at Greybull had the right engine locked up solid due to 4 cylinders being full of oil.
The scavaged oil is returned to the oil tank.
The drains on the manifolds would be used to drain oil that flows into them thru a open lower intake valve, not in the event of a liquid lock.
Most liquid locks occure on one cylinder, but I have had them occure on several at once. The A-26 at Greybull had the right engine locked up solid due to 4 cylinders being full of oil.
The scavaged oil is returned to the oil tank.
Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:44 am
Matt Gunsch wrote:The scavaged oil is returned to the oil tank.
Hmmm thats a given. But the question is which hose or hoses are the ones that carry it back to the tank?????????
Scavenge goes through the oil coolers then to a "Y" connection then to a valve, probably an electrical thermostat control valve, then to the tank.
So then when this valve is closed where does the scavenge oil go?
There are 2 hoses at approximately 10 oclock and at 2 oclock positions at the fire seal in front of the accessory section. But info I have claims this is for venting???????????
I see no other hoses that send scavenge oil back to the tank.
Ah yes the crankcase could fill with oil, the whole oil tank could drain into it since the tank is higher. And especially if the scavenge pumps weren't working. Clearance space in the pump, and bearings will allow it to seep in, yeah it would take awhile.
Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:31 am
the scavage oil is done internally, no external lines. it is part of the return system.
This is the oil system from the A-26, most systems are simular.
This is the oil system from the A-26, most systems are simular.