Help Get POF B-17 "Piccadilly Lilly" into the air

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:10 pm

Most of the aircraft there are on long term loan from NMUSAF. But the museum is not supported by the NMUSAF. Sorry I feel the preservation of aircraft is more important than politics. I was just asking if any items being discarded from this B-17 might be able to be used in another. At the end of the day, all I care about is that maybe another B-17 is more complete.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:12 pm

Any idea yet on the new markings this B-17 will carry. I plan on donating myself when I am out there in less than a month.

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11332

mustangdriver wrote:

Any idea yet on the new markings this B-17 will carry. I plan on donating myself when I am out there in less than a month.

Make sure you let me know when you'll be out. I'd like to meet you in person!

I think the paint has been donated already.

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11332

noizeedave wrote:

Sorry are these windows REALLY hard to get ahold of? If so, does anyone have the blueprints or examples that arent warped or damaged to mold? I know a very top of the line aircraft glass manufacturer that might make some if there is enough info to make them and the need.....

I think they may be flat. Maybe Gary can measure the thickness (not that he isn't busy enough)? POF's are installed so it would be difficult to measure.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:24 pm

bdk wrote:

mustangdriver wrote:

Any idea yet on the new markings this B-17 will carry. I plan on donating myself when I am out there in less than a month.

Make sure you let me know when you'll be out. I'd like to meet you in person!

I think the paint has been donated already.

Will do. That would be cool!

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:27 am

bdk wrote:

noizeedave wrote:

Sorry are these windows REALLY hard to get ahold of? If so, does anyone have the blueprints or examples that arent warped or damaged to mold? I know a very top of the line aircraft glass manufacturer that might make some if there is enough info to make them and the need.....

I think they may be flat. Maybe Gary can measure the thickness (not that he isn't busy enough)? POF's are installed so it would be difficult to measure.

The B-17 windshields are about two to three inches thick and weigh a LOT. The ones for TR are laminated in many layers. I know they're heavy because I had to carry them around the hangar the last day I was in Houston.

Scott

Brad · **Joined:** Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:30 pm **Posts:** 1132

mustangdriver wrote:

Grissom is not an air force base museum. They are on their own.
Gary, the NMUSAF has done alot of trading of parts to give to flying warbirds. Just not those of certain organizations.

That may be true but the B-17 (and I would assume the majority of the other airplanes) certainly belongs to the Air Force Museum. Just like the ones at Dyess, Hill, Castle and several others. If the good people at the Grissom museum try to swap parts off of it they will find out the hard way.

Can you give me an example of parts the Air Force Museum has given or traded to a currently flying warbird in the last ten years? I don't mean something you heard about, I mean something indisputable.

I know for a fact that the people at the McChord Museum weren't even allowed to discuss trading a good wiring harness off their PBY for our TBM's bad harness. Didn't matter that the engines on the PBY weren't even original or going to be used in the restoration.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:06 am

Go ask the Collings Foundation where the parts in the firewalls for 909 came from. Or the nacelles, and piece to make molds from.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:08 am

Also the museum is making parts for the beaufighter, and while they had the molds out to make the parts for their example, they made enough for every example and once complete are offering them to museums that have beaufighters.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:14 am

Brad wrote:

mustangdriver wrote:

Grissom is not an air force base museum. They are on their own.
Gary, the NMUSAF has done alot of trading of parts to give to flying warbirds. Just not those of certain organizations.

That may be true but the B-17 (and I would assume the majority of the other airplanes) certainly belongs to the Air Force Museum. Just like the ones at Dyess, Hill, Castle and several others. If the good people at the Grissom museum try to swap parts off of it they will find out the hard way.

Can you give me an example of parts the Air Force Museum has given or traded to a currently flying warbird in the last ten years? I don't mean something you heard about, I mean something indisputable.

I know for a fact that the people at the McChord Museum weren't even allowed to discuss trading a good wiring harness off their PBY for our TBM's bad harness. Didn't matter that the engines on the PBY weren't even original or going to be used in the restoration.

Brad I am just a normal member of the museum, and trying to help out the Grissom B-17 with something I may be able to do. I am not into politics, just trying to make a b-17 more complete. Sorry that it once again has led to the favorite past time of many of bashing the museum. I am not going to further hi jack BDK's thread. This is about the POF B-17. This B-17 will one day return to the skies.

Brad · **Joined:** Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:30 pm **Posts:** 1132

mustangdriver wrote:

Also the museum is making parts for the beaufighter, and while they had the molds out to make the parts for their example, they made enough for every example and once complete are offering them to museums that have beaufighters.

You've said that about 909 before but I've never heard it from anybody but you. I'd love to be proven wrong.

Making parts from molds is a far cry from taking parts off of airplanes and giving them to organizations to use on other airplanes.

So you are saying that every example of the Beaufighter has parts made by the Air Force Museum? They are just doing this on the off chance that other museums will need them?

Sorry Chris, I call B.S.

Edited to add:
This isn't about bashing the Air Force museum, Grissom or any other museum. It's about you making claims that you can't back up. Yes another B-17 will return to the sky but it won't be because the Air Force Museum gave them parts! Maybe stuff will be liberated in the night...

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:26 am

Brad wrote:

mustangdriver wrote:

Also the museum is making parts for the beaufighter, and while they had the molds out to make the parts for their example, they made enough for every example and once complete are offering them to museums that have beaufighters.

You've said that about 909 before but I've never heard it from anybody but you. I'd love to be proven wrong.

Making parts from molds is a far cry from taking parts off of airplanes and giving them to organizations to use on other airplanes.

So you are saying that every example of the Beaufighter has parts made by the Air Force Museum? They are just doing this on the off chance that other museums will need them?

Sorry Chris, I call B.S.

Brad I have some of the parts that the NMUSAF sent up for the nacelles. There is alot about 909 that you won't hear. Like how some one very close to the Collings Foundation said that 909 couldn't be saced and that we should cut it up and part it out. A small local museum said that they could fix it, and the USAFM offered help where they could.

You asked for proof, I provided it, and now you don't bellieve me. Not sure what else you want. The beaufighter parts are just being made now.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:31 am

I can back up every claim I made.

Michel C-GNCJ · **Posted:** Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:51 pm

I visited this fine museum earlier this summer and was able to have a chat with a gentleman restoring this old lady.

Very nice work is being done over there to say the least !

I took many pictures too and will post them soon on my web site. Soon !

Mark_Pilkington · **Posted:** Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:50 pm

mustangdriver wrote:

Also the museum is making parts for the beaufighter, and while they had the molds out to make the parts for their example, they made enough for every example and once complete are offering them to museums that have beaufighters.

Chris

I sent you a PM re these

regards

Mark Pilkington

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Help Get POF B-17 "Piccadilly Lilly" into the air

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