What does the A stand for after a B-25 serial number

noizeedave · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:55 pm

Why do some B-25s have the A after their serial numberrs now aa days? Is it because they were once a sprayer or fire bomber? does anyone have reference to this on a document?

thanks

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:16 pm

A for adopted the ID :?:

That's how they do it on the MustangsMustangs site.

noizeedave · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:21 pm

I ask because I notice so many B-25a have this. Now I know that the B-25 registrations and histories I have looked into all have been aerial sprayers or fire bombers. Might htis be it? I m looking for a real document from the FAA explaining why the A is there?

Thanks
Dave

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:02 am

Dave,

The last time we were at AFHRA I asked that same question about Chuckie. Her data plate shows her as 44-8543A, and there was a thought that the suffix letter had something to do with her modification to a pathfinder. Augie, the serial number guru at Maxwell, explained that those suffixes were applied in the post-war period. "A" meant regular Air Force assignment, while "B" meant that the airplane was in the Reserves or ANG.

There were a large number of B-25s used as TBs and they would definitely have been assigned to the USAF rather than a reserve unit, so that may be why you see the letter so often.

Scott

Taigh Ramey · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:19 am

I was told what the A was for 30 years ago when I picked up this data plate from the B-29 in Soccoro, NM. but sadly I have forgotten what it was. More sad was the fact that she was scrapped in Socorro.

aerovin · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:58 am

This question has come up so many times and it is on so many aircraft I thought a bit of digging was in order.

If one looks at the Menard/Bowers book Buzz Numbers on page 79, there is a excerpted copy of Air Force Regulation 65-60 dated June 11, 1948 (in really tiny print...shrunk to fit four pages on one 8.5 x 11 page), that basically states that the suffix is a "Component Assignment" that is added to the serial "to facilitate proper auditing and cost accounting". "A" was for USAF, "G" was for USA, "M: was for Air Attache, "N" was for National Guard, "R" was for Air Reserve, and "T" was for ROTC.

This is the explanation in the succeeding paragraph:

"The appropriate symbol will be used as a suffix immediately following the aircraft serial number. This symbol will be shown on the fuselage of the aircraft after the aircraft serial number placed on the left-hand side of the fuselage in the vicinity of the pilot's position. Assignment symbols will also be reflected on all forms, charts, and other listings pertaining to the aircraft. As an example of this provision, USAF B-29, serial number 45-61717 will have an "A" added to its serial number thus becoming 45-61717A. Similarly, USA L-4J, serial number 45-4822, will become 45-4822G."

Interesting stuff.

As far as the FAA (or CAA for older airplanes), the original military serial numbers were picked up off the aircraft data plates, so if had the "A" suffix it was picked up there. At some point in the process, an inspector usually checks the data plate to verify the serial.

noizeedave · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:55 pm

Thats the best Ive heard so far. The problem i have it that my dataplate is original, and I have no A stamped on it, but the FAA has had it in their database since 1967. The last dataplate added or moded was the 1954 Hayes Modification to a VB-25N.

So I have no reason for there to be an A on the end of the serial number, no paperwork explaining why, and my dataplate has not got it on their. So reason would say, the A needs to be off the registration, correct? The registration matches the dataplate, not the other way around?

Unless their is some "Secret" document stating that certain airframes need to have an a?

There are about 5 b-25s i have found with this same mystery. If the B-29 Dataplate that was put up has the A stamped on it, you would go to believe it would be an air force wide requirement, not just on b-29s? The only thought i have is that 4 of the 5 B-25s i have looked at have "Authenticated" fire or aerial spraying pasts. Is this an Agriculture code from the FAA, a requirement of sorts? Does anyone here know about aircraf serial numbers and AG requirements?

Thanks

Dave

aerovin · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:39 pm

noizeedave wrote:

The only thought i have is that 4 of the 5 B-25s i have looked at have "Authenticated" fire or aerial spraying pasts. Is this an Agriculture code from the FAA, a requirement of sorts? Does anyone here know about aircraf serial numbers and AG requirements?

Based on many years of in depth research on FAA registration numbers and serial numbers, the FAA had nothing to do with adding the "A" suffix (other than transcribing the serial number) and it has nothing to do with the airplane being an air tanker or duster.

My suggestion for your specific case is to request the FAA Registration file on the airplane. You can order it off the FAA website here:
http://162.58.35.241/e.gov/ND/airrecordsND.asp.

It will cost you ten bucks but you'll get a CD with all the paperwork scanned as .pdf files. Normally, I would expect it on the original Bill of Sale from the government. In any event, you should be able to follow the serial number through the paperwork filed by the various owners and see when the "A" suffix was added. If it wasn't on the original BOS, there should be a note on a registration application made by some CAA/FAA clerk about why the serial was changed.

Or, since I have the file on 44-30801 on microfilm, you can look at these very poor copies picked up when scanned as a transparency.

Here, the BOS does not show the "A" suffix on the serial (unusual in my experience):

But here, on the first application for registration made by Fogle Aircraft in September 1959, the "A" suffix has been added. No note saying why it was appended...possibly it is in the airframe file that accompanies the registration file on the FAA CD.

I think it has been carried with the "A" suffix since day one in the FAA files. Just my two cents.

aerovin · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:57 pm

And since I can't just let something go, here is a more typical Bill of Sale with the "A" suffix included:

For what it's worth.

Matt Gunsch · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:12 pm

the AF sales document dated May 6, 1959 for 44-86797 do not have the A attached, but it does show up on a bill of sale dated April 21, 1965. But it does not appear on other records after that.

Warbird Information Exchange

What does the A stand for after a B-25 serial number

Who is online