Warbird Information Exchange

The "Airshow Horror Stories" thread got me thinking.

Sponsorships bring in money for shows.
Big sponsors, big shows.
Little sponsors, smaller shows.
Big sponsors may or may not mean lower ticket prices, but both types generally cater to the general public who will have to lay out their hard earned dollars in order to attend. Ticket price for both these shows have to be somewhat affordable for the public to attend and make the show a success. If not, next years show may not happen.

How much would you pay to attend a show that was geared just for people who are really interested in warbirds?

High enough price that the "unwashed masses" can't afford to come?
There would be fewer sponsorships because of a smaller "captive audience".

Remember, the price you would pay has to cover the expenses of the event.

How many people would you need to make it a success? Are there many like us out there who might pay say, $100.00 a day, for the privilege of not having masses of people there?

I'll leave it at this point and see what people think.
Blue skies,
Jerry

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"Always remember that, when you enter the ocean or the forest, you are no longer at the top of the food chain."

$118.37

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S.

I would pay $100, IF, you didn't have some blithering announcer giving a play by play of a flyby, drowning out the sound of the plane(s) themselves. I go to airshows to see and HEAR the planes, not someone telling me what I am supposed to be seeing and hearing.

In my opinion I feel that doing a small intimate show like that would be very tough. If you price the show at a point ($100 is what you mention) that excludes the general public, it will be very difficult to cover the cost of the show. The amount of hard core fans is minimal for a given geographic region. If you have to pay $100 a day to get into the show, are you going to be able to get people to pay for airline tickets and hotels as well? The show would have to have something really special in order to get people to lay out not only the show fee, but the travel fee to get there. Drawing people from all over the US and even further would be needed to get enough hard core fans to cover the cost of the show. In my opinion it would be tough to come up with a lineup that would draw that type of attention (espically the first year).

You can do this and make it work. There's a substantial number of people who pay hundreds of dollars in travel costs to attend the top warbird airshows and wouldn't see much difference between a $20 admission and a $100 admission in the scheme of things. We might even prefer that a greater portion of our total expenditure go to support the event rather than travel and lodging costs.

You don't have to make it exclusive. I don't think the reason people would pay $100 is to avoid the masses. Masses are actually pretty cool. Really all you need is one thing. Paraphrasing Herve Villechaize:

The planes, boss, the planes!

With respect to TriangleP, forget about the gimmicky reenactments, special paint jobs, hype, bells and whistles. Get a large group of airplanes together that are rare, rarely seen, rarely seen together, and/or really nicely restored, and you'll get the $100-a-head buffs. Promote the show on the web by promising specifically which planes are coming, and follow through on those promises to the extent possible. There are really only about 100 warbirds active in the United States that every buff really wants to see before he dies. Deliver 20 of those (backfilled with some P-51s ) and you're home free; get 30 and you've got a blockbuster; 40 and your show would live in immortality.

Oh, and discount deeply for children, and even spouses. Remember that if I have a wife and 2 kids, your $100 airshow becomes a $400 airshow, and that ain't gonna fly. Have a $150 advance ticket for families (with ID to prove you're related) and/or no more than $20 admission for kids under 19.

August

I agree. Kim and I drove from central Illinois for one day of Thunder Over Michigan last year. Two nights motel, food, gas, photo tour/photo pit, etc. Makes $100 special show seem reasonable to me.
BTW, we made the same Thunder trip this year, and stayed for the second day. Will likely do it again next year.

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Steve Turner, USAF aircraft refueler 54+ years ago.

..If i'm not flying in or working the show i don't go.

High enough so I can find a secluded place for my self so I don't have some idot pointing to a B-17 saying "Those B-24s are so awesome! Do you know anything about them? I also like the fact that they're tail draggers." No I don't know anything about them
This is the reason why I don't like going to airshows any more. I always have some spectator, who's only experience with aviation has been as a passenger in the back of a 757 and watching dogfights, tellling everyone what an expert he is.
I just want to be alone, listen to the airplanes, and walk around with no one's "expert" opinion hindering my enjoyment.

I'm glad this thread has sparked some interest.

The way I see it, at $25 per person, and only 5,000 people attend, over a two day weekend, the total will be $125K. That's enough for some shows, but pulling in rare and far away aircraft might cost a bit more when all is said and done.

I picked 5,000 attendees because on an airport, over two days, that's a fairly thin crowd, hence not crowded at all.

Now, take that number of people, at $100/head, ($500K) and you're talking major funds to bring in big and rare aircraft.

But what is the threshold where it becomes too expensive even for the diehards like us?

Will 5,000 people feel the same urge to attend at $100, $50, or $25?

At $100.00, you are basically charging $50/day, maybe not to bad for the benefit of a smaller crowd. I don't think $50/day is unreasonable if the goods are deliverable.

What would you expect for that $50/day price?
Jerry

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"Always remember that, when you enter the ocean or the forest, you are no longer at the top of the food chain."

Jerry, riffing a little on my earlier point about rare aircraft, I sat down for five minutes and bashed out a list of warbirds currently active in North America that I would call the "A-list". It is appended below. I believe that if you pull in 15-20 planes from the list below supported by some less rare types, with good promotion, you can get 10,000 buffs to pay $100 most anywhere in the country. I've paid more than that to see shows with just 3 or 4 of them. This list includes some planes that don't tour much to airshows, so it's not entirely realistic unless you hold the show at their base, and I know I've forgotten some. To this list I would add several planes schedule to come on line in the next few years, e.g. CAF B-29, POF P-59, Seafire XV, Flug Werke 190.

August

"NORTH AMERICAN WARBIRD A-LIST"

Avro Lancaster, CWH
Bell P-39, CAF
Bell P-39, Lewis
Boeing P-26, POF
Consolidated B-24, Collings
Consolidated LB-30 (or whatever), CAF
Curtiss P-40C, FHC
Curtiss SB2C, CAF
Douglas SBD, CAF
Douglas SBD, POF
Douglas SBD, Lone Star
Fairey Firefly, Kurzel
Fairey Firefly, CWH
Goodyear F2G, ex Odegaard
Grumman F4F-3, Craig
Hawker Hurricane, Russell
Hawker Hurricane, Yagen
Hawker Hurricane, Friedkin
Hawker Hurricane, FHC
Hawker Hurricane, VWC
Lockheed P-38, Croul
Lockheed P-38, Lewis
Lockheed P-38, POF
Messerschmitt 109E, Flying Heritage
Messerschmitt 109E, Russell
Messerschmitt 262 replica, Collings
Mikoyan MiG-3, Yagen
Mitsubishi A6M3, CAF
Mitsubishi A6M5, POF
North American P-51A, POF
North American P-51B/C, CAF
North American P-51B/C, Friedkin
North American P-51B/C, Paul
North American P-51B/C, Roush
North American P-51B/C, Weeks
North American P-51D [A couple of the best, like HJGB]
North American P-51H, Coutches
North American P-51H, Whittington
Polikarpov I-16, CAF (?)
Polikarpov I-16, FHC
Polikarpov I-16, Yagen
Seversky P-35, POF
Supermarine Spitfire V, Lewis
Supermarine Spitfire V, FHC
Supermarine Seafire 47, Smith
Westland Lysander, CWH

I never really listened to much of the money talk in the meetings about the CAF's Airsho (boy, I HATED those meetings), but I do recall that there was frequently one discussion or another about how people were whining about the price of the show, whether it be the general public or Warbird junkies. I can't remember what the ticket price was, but I want to say it was $25 or $30. So if folks were whining about that, then I cannot imagine them paying $100 to go to a show. They may say they'd go, but I doubt it.

Just my $.02 worth,
Gary

I think a lot of it depends on the location of the event. If you hold it in a Midwest town that's economically depressed, you aren't going to do as well as say - Wings Over Houston might. I've got to say that WOH was the best crowd big airshow crowd that I've seen.
Here's what they charge:


Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

Interesting question. Personally, I feel that pricing out the "unwashed masses" does nothing but harm aviation and air shows in general. Just think of all the young people that might not be able to attend because their parents can't afford to take them (or enthusiasts who just can't afford a $100 ticket on top of travel expenses to and from a show - there's more than one of us on WIX with a small pocketbook). Aviation ain't going to grow on its own. New blood needs to catch the bug and become interested, because one day they'll be the ones flying the warbirds, maintaining them, and owning them. Air shows are where the aviation bug is caught and develops into a full blown disease.

I have no problem with higher priced "VIP" seating areas at air shows, but making the base level ticket price so high that the average "joe" can't attend doesn't do anything for the warbird movement in my honest opinion.

I would wager that the "unwashed masses" are the bread and butter of nearly every air show in existence. I realize that for the vast majority that attend a show, it's nothing but an afternoon of entertainment, but I'd sure hate to lose the opportunity to educate them about aviation and history by pricing them out all together.

That being said, I myself would gladly pay $100 or more to attend a high caliber WWII-era warbird show.

Zack

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Curator - EAA Aviation Museum, Oshkosh, WI
"Let No Story Go Untold!"
http://www.timelessvoices.org

Zack;
In my opinion, you are correct. You can not exclude the "unwashed masses". I put forth the question because of some of the comments made on this site about announcers, masses of uniformed people etc.
It would be nice to have our own private air show, but in the grand scheme of things, it isn't gonna happen much.

I also agree that the kids are the future and we need to encourage them to get into aviation if it is to continue to survive.

Many events I have produced let kids in for free under 12 years old. The can't come by themselves, so at least you get an adult to pay.

I wonder if anybody has an idea of what it costs to attend a show in the UK, say like Duxford or Old Warden?

Jerry

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"Always remember that, when you enter the ocean or the forest, you are no longer at the top of the food chain."

I would also say ... interesting question...
Let me relate my experience at my home airfield ...Rand Airport (FAGM) near Johannesburg South Africa...

Most of the airshow pilots and aerobatic teams in South Africa are based at Rand airport.

Last year they decided that they would hold a "pilots day"
On a weekday, I think it was a Friday, they booked the airspace over the airfield. They invited all the display pilots ...and their families to a private air display. They also invited a few photographers like myself to attend. There was no publicity and no public invited. It ended up in a great airshow ... and aside from a few family members ...I was only one of about six spectators
The display pilots had a great time because there was no pressure with time slots etc etc....
And as you can imagine .... I felt hugely privileged to attend... but I must admit it was very weird having virtually no spectators


Now to get back to the original question .... would I have paid a lot to attend a "limited entry" airshow .... Well yes I would have ... but I would only have been able to do this once. As it is ... I am not able to attend all the airshows I would like to. Its not so much about the Airshow ticket price ... but more about the travel and stay over expenses one incurs when trying to attend many airshows. Distances are far in South Africa ...and even further in the USA ...Now just what would the total cost be of someone in Florida wanting to attend an Airshow in California....