Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:39 pm
I discovered another cache of B-29 gunnery training equipment photos at AFHRA earlier this month. Here are three pictures that were taken at the training center in Orlando.
This first one shows the two side blister sighting stations in the background. The projector sets in the foreground are for the tail turret trainer on the far right of the photo:
Here is the business end of a side gunner station:
And this is, of course, a tail turret trainer:
I've got a bunch more if anyone cares to see them.
Scott
This first one shows the two side blister sighting stations in the background. The projector sets in the foreground are for the tail turret trainer on the far right of the photo:
Here is the business end of a side gunner station:
And this is, of course, a tail turret trainer:
I've got a bunch more if anyone cares to see them.
Scott
Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:05 pm
Those are FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did all gunners go through this mock-up or was this just utilized at this specific base?
Did all gunners go through this mock-up or was this just utilized at this specific base?
Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:14 pm
Smis,
There were different levels of training for the CFC gunners depending on what station and phase of training they were in. Orlando was a testing center that developed training aids for many programs, not just the B-29 gunnery system. When the gunners went to their specific gunnery schools they would work with mockups much like these, and when they went into Phase Training each station had a mockup system that conformed to a basic 2AF curriculum. It was a very complicated training scheme, much like the airplane and systems the men were training to crew and maintain.
Scott
There were different levels of training for the CFC gunners depending on what station and phase of training they were in. Orlando was a testing center that developed training aids for many programs, not just the B-29 gunnery system. When the gunners went to their specific gunnery schools they would work with mockups much like these, and when they went into Phase Training each station had a mockup system that conformed to a basic 2AF curriculum. It was a very complicated training scheme, much like the airplane and systems the men were training to crew and maintain.
Scott
Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:34 pm
so they went from these textbooks to mock-ups to shooting shotguns out of pick-ups to the turret mock-ups on the ranges, to B-24 modfied with CFC controls to B-29s?
Do you know the sequence (order) or their training?
Thanks
Do you know the sequence (order) or their training?
Thanks
Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:39 pm
Kinda.
It is really a long program to explain, but the gunner-trainees worked their way up from the basics all the way through to the actual airplane, at least after the program was fully instituted. During the early days of the 58th and 73rd Wings the training for gunners was much less thorough and the men went into combat still working through the learning curve and problems with their equipment. As the B-29 program became better established the training improved to a great extent. That went for every position on the airplane and ground crews as well.
Scott
It is really a long program to explain, but the gunner-trainees worked their way up from the basics all the way through to the actual airplane, at least after the program was fully instituted. During the early days of the 58th and 73rd Wings the training for gunners was much less thorough and the men went into combat still working through the learning curve and problems with their equipment. As the B-29 program became better established the training improved to a great extent. That went for every position on the airplane and ground crews as well.
Scott
Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:19 pm
Very cool indeed Scotty my boy.
Cheers!!
Cheers!!
Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:28 pm
There are several mentions of the B-29B in this thread. The B-29 at the Museum of Aviation in Warner Robins, GA is a B-29B. I worked at the museum for 5 years and would try and figure out its' history as all of the records and everything went out the window when it was sent to Aberdeen Proving Grounds.
Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:27 pm
Hey Taigh if you are out there, how are you coming with the forward lower turret for "FIFI"? I'd love to know and see some pictures if you can.
As you may already know I was in the Boeing hangar in Seattle a few months ago where they are working on T-Square 54. They have all there turrets working now and remote bench mounted sights that you can control and fire the guns on the airplane and a floor mounted 4 barrel turret. They also are using a sound track of a 50 cal firing when you trigger the guns! Very cool stuff! I just sent them a gun sight I had here and they are going to work it over for me so we could possiblily do the same thing.
Dave
As you may already know I was in the Boeing hangar in Seattle a few months ago where they are working on T-Square 54. They have all there turrets working now and remote bench mounted sights that you can control and fire the guns on the airplane and a floor mounted 4 barrel turret. They also are using a sound track of a 50 cal firing when you trigger the guns! Very cool stuff! I just sent them a gun sight I had here and they are going to work it over for me so we could possiblily do the same thing.
Dave
Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:12 am
Pogmusic wrote:There are several mentions of the B-29B in this thread. The B-29 at the Museum of Aviation in Warner Robins, GA is a B-29B. I worked at the museum for 5 years and would try and figure out its' history as all of the records and everything went out the window when it was sent to Aberdeen Proving Grounds.
Yep, the B-29B and 315th Wing are a favorite project of mine. I lost interest in the B-29 a little over a year ago and put most of my Superfort material in storage, but I can dig it out to look for the history of 44-84053. She was a later ship, but still in the blocks of aircraft that saw service with the 315th after the end of hostilities. It seems they rotated several new aircraft out to the Pacific after the end of the War, and '053 could possibly have been in that batch. The "leftover" Bs seem to have filtered into all kinds of unique testing roles since they were already stripped, so your airplane could have done some pretty interesting things postwar. Did you ever contact Archie at AFHRA for the Individual Aircraft Record Card? I'd think there would be a copy in the Archives even though the ship went to APG. I've actually thought about researching '053 in the past, maybe this will be the catalyst to get me back in the hunt.
Scott
Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:07 am
Not sure that is the right S/N for the A/C. However, we requested the cards etc. and were told they had been destroyed. However, maybe they weren't...
Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:40 am
Pogmusic wrote:Not sure that is the right S/N for the A/C. However, we requested the cards etc. and were told they had been destroyed. However, maybe they weren't...
That is the serial number that has always been listed for the airplane since I've been researching them. The number is correct for a B, so I'm guessing that is her identity. At that time Bell was building Bs with odd last digits to the serial and even numbers on standard B-29s.
Scott
Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:58 am
That'd be a great project and I know they'd be happy to finally find out its history. It use to be a very stock B-29. When I left in '96, we were talking about a total interior restoration.
Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:13 pm
B29B24crewchief wrote:Hey Taigh if you are out there, how are you coming with the forward lower turret for "FIFI"? I'd love to know and see some pictures if you can.
As you may already know I was in the Boeing hangar in Seattle a few months ago where they are working on T-Square 54. They have all there turrets working now and remote bench mounted sights that you can control and fire the guns on the airplane and a floor mounted 4 barrel turret. They also are using a sound track of a 50 cal firing when you trigger the guns! Very cool stuff! I just sent them a gun sight I had here and they are going to work it over for me so we could possibly do the same thing.
Dave
Dave,
The Seattle folks are running into the same trouble that we are; namely the amplidyne situation. even though you sent up two only one is working as the other is shorted internally. I have been working with an electrical engineer/prototype guy who is building a solid state motor controller to replace the rotary amplidynes. I believe that this system will be a world better for making FiFi's lower forward turret operational and reliable in the long run.
My electrical guru is also a volunteer who is working on the project after hours. I did get a quote for having this done professionally and it was going to cost about the same as one of FiFi's new engines so I figure that the volunteer route is a better way to go.
Please be patient, I will get it done.
Taigh
Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:13 pm
Taigh, since you're here.......
How are you sitting on H2X stuff? I'm helping to collect up all the materials we're going to need to properly configure Chuckie back to her Pathfinder configuration. Any help or leads would be gratefully accepted!
Scott
How are you sitting on H2X stuff? I'm helping to collect up all the materials we're going to need to properly configure Chuckie back to her Pathfinder configuration. Any help or leads would be gratefully accepted!
Scott
Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:58 pm
Hey Scott,
If I was sitting on WWII radar gear it probably wouldn't be worth much all smashed flat. I try hard not to sit on that rare delicate equipment!
Sorry I don't have much in the way of H2X stuff available. If you come up with extra gear please keep me in mind though.
If I was sitting on WWII radar gear it probably wouldn't be worth much all smashed flat. I try hard not to sit on that rare delicate equipment!
Sorry I don't have much in the way of H2X stuff available. If you come up with extra gear please keep me in mind though.