Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:11 am
That is awesome.., if you advertised this right.., you would have people waiting for months for this opportunity!!!
Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:14 am
Taigh Ramey wrote:We used a real big private ranch for the target. There was an observation area on a hill overlooking the range and we even had forward air controllers (a couple of CAF L birds) watching over things. The local fire department was also on hand to keep an eye on the event.
Now that sounds like loads of fun! Actually getting to be a FAC for a day!
I asked the land owner if he could put an old truck or something out for us as a target and he did. Later when I saw the video I about ---- as he had a WWII 1.5 ton Chevy out there. I would have cried if I had hit it but, like I said, the safest spot in the whole area was the target!
Maybe ya'll could build something relatively cheap like this that the reenactors used out our Mediterranean Assault
Contractors are always throwing scraps away from projects and if you talked to the right guys, you might get enough to build something similar fairly reasonably. This particular "battle damaged" house is in sections that G Company from Camp Mabry can take down and transport to events fairly easily in the back of a truck.
Ryan
Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:20 am
WOW!
What a great time that must have been!
I had no idea you guys were actually using the Norden. Was it hooked to the the autopilot and everything?
60 feet from the target is quite good for a rookie without any time in a bamboo bomber with an instructor yelling at you...
Great job Taigh and Collings crew!
What a great time that must have been!
I had no idea you guys were actually using the Norden. Was it hooked to the the autopilot and everything?
60 feet from the target is quite good for a rookie without any time in a bamboo bomber with an instructor yelling at you...
Great job Taigh and Collings crew!
Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:24 am
Any plans to do something like that in Texas?
Ryan
Ryan
Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:07 am
Very cool indeed. Charlie Tilghman tried with all of his might about two or three years ago to have that very idea done at CAF HQ in Midland. But seeing how it was such a huge failure for the Collings Foundation, it's a good thing the CAF decided against trying anything new, huh? 
(Sarcasm over)
Gary
(Sarcasm over)
Gary
Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:53 pm
Nice!!! 
no sarcasm detected!
no sarcasm detected!
Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:55 pm
Charge up to $5K a piece for a three day bomber crew training course. Training first day, flight the next day and more training, then flying and bombing the third day!
20 + people.., actually, you could charge more than $5K and you would still get people there in droves!!!!
Like sleepaway camp except FUN and for adults!!!!!
20 + people.., actually, you could charge more than $5K and you would still get people there in droves!!!!
Like sleepaway camp except FUN and for adults!!!!!
Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:55 pm
My own personal Beechcraft AT-11 project here was based at Midland Army Air Field through WWII, the biggest bombardier training base in WWII.
Some day, when I get her done, I will bring her back home to Midland and she will once again drop 100 pound practice bombs on one of the old bomb ranges.
She will have all of her original equipment including a working C-1 auto pilot. I do hope to get the C-1 operational in both the Collings B-17 and B-24. It will make flying the bomb run a lot easier and better than trying to find the intercom button, while working the Norden, to tell Pappy "2 degrees left".
Later Pappy said "do you know how hard it is to make 2 degree turns!" Fine, I said how about 7 degrees left and five degrees right! I think I got that line from an old Bob Stevens cartoon.
Some day, when I get her done, I will bring her back home to Midland and she will once again drop 100 pound practice bombs on one of the old bomb ranges.
She will have all of her original equipment including a working C-1 auto pilot. I do hope to get the C-1 operational in both the Collings B-17 and B-24. It will make flying the bomb run a lot easier and better than trying to find the intercom button, while working the Norden, to tell Pappy "2 degrees left".
Later Pappy said "do you know how hard it is to make 2 degree turns!" Fine, I said how about 7 degrees left and five degrees right! I think I got that line from an old Bob Stevens cartoon.
Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:57 pm
Taigh Ramey wrote:My own personal Beechcraft AT-11 project here was based at Midland Army Air Field through WWII, the biggest bombardier training base in WWII.
Some day, when I get her done, I will bring her back home to Midland and she will once again drop 100 pound practice bombs on one of the old bomb ranges.
She will have all of her original equipment including a working C-1 auto pilot. I do hope to get the C-1 operational in both the Collings B-17 and B-24. It will make flying the bomb run a lot easier and better than trying to find the intercom button, while working the Norden, to tell Pappy "2 degrees left".
Later Pappy said "do you know how hard it is to make 2 degree turns!" Fine, I said how about 7 degrees left and five degrees right! I think I got that line from an old Bob Stevens cartoon.
That is cool! Make sure we know when you are going to bring her out to Midland so we can have a get together! Any chance of posting updates and a full history or your bird?
Thanks,
Chris
Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:43 pm
The AT-11 project will take a little while to do. It is in the beginning phases, which means we just brought it inside. Truly a before picture.
She is an awesome Beech AT-11 as she has hardly been altered from her original configuration. Still has the small port hole windows and bomb racks complete with bomb shackle wear from bombs rattling on the racks for many hours over the Texas countryside.
I think this AT-11 the most original AT-11 in existence except for Kermit's AT-11 from Alaska.
She is an awesome Beech AT-11 as she has hardly been altered from her original configuration. Still has the small port hole windows and bomb racks complete with bomb shackle wear from bombs rattling on the racks for many hours over the Texas countryside.
I think this AT-11 the most original AT-11 in existence except for Kermit's AT-11 from Alaska.
Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:08 pm
That is amazing!!
I don't know that I would ever get to participate in something like this, but I want to say thank you to Taigh, the Collings Foundation and everyone who helped make this happen. It really is incredible to think that 70 years later, a B-24 would still be dropping bombs, for fun. Living history indeed!!
I don't know that I would ever get to participate in something like this, but I want to say thank you to Taigh, the Collings Foundation and everyone who helped make this happen. It really is incredible to think that 70 years later, a B-24 would still be dropping bombs, for fun. Living history indeed!!
Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:57 pm
crank up that video!!
Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:05 pm
I'm in awe of what you guys pulled off. I hope that other organizations will start doing the same thing. Wouldn't it be awesome to have a "bomb" competition using most of the surviving B-17's, B-24's, B-25's. Think how neat that would be!
I have a suggestion for whenever you guys get the 262 flying. Put guns in the nose of that thing to fire blanks, so when you do the simulated attacks against the B-24 and B-17 that flames are coming out of the barrels. It will add a HUGE realistic component for those waistgunners in future bomb camps. It would undoubtedly give a true sense of semi-helplessness of what those gunners must have felt. Inspiring....
I have a suggestion for whenever you guys get the 262 flying. Put guns in the nose of that thing to fire blanks, so when you do the simulated attacks against the B-24 and B-17 that flames are coming out of the barrels. It will add a HUGE realistic component for those waistgunners in future bomb camps. It would undoubtedly give a true sense of semi-helplessness of what those gunners must have felt. Inspiring....
Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:53 pm
My plan is to get propane or oxy/acetylene guns into the turrets and keep blank firing 50's in the waist positions.
Rob is a go for pulling the fuel tanks out of the gun bays on the P-51C so blank or gas guns would be a good candidate for that as well as the 262. Rob is the easy part; it's Wayne that I am worried about since the Mustang belongs to Wayne not Rob!
It was the same with the B-17. It doesn't matter if Rob says its okay for me to mess with the 17 as it isn't his airplane; it belongs to Mac.
Mac is the guy that I have to be careful to catch on the right day and time. I have found that he is the most approachable at Applebees after we have been there a little while...
He let me fly in the left seat of his B-17 when I was in Florida on tour. I love Mac!!!
As far as the 262 goes I think just getting it on line for a while would be a good idea before I hit Rob up for 30mm's in the nose. I have actually breached (pun also intended) the idea of some sort of booming nose guns in the ME-262 and, as with anything else, he is always supportive.
I do wonder why Rob always shakes his head when he walks away from these kinds of conversations though...
Rob is a go for pulling the fuel tanks out of the gun bays on the P-51C so blank or gas guns would be a good candidate for that as well as the 262. Rob is the easy part; it's Wayne that I am worried about since the Mustang belongs to Wayne not Rob!
It was the same with the B-17. It doesn't matter if Rob says its okay for me to mess with the 17 as it isn't his airplane; it belongs to Mac.
Mac is the guy that I have to be careful to catch on the right day and time. I have found that he is the most approachable at Applebees after we have been there a little while...
He let me fly in the left seat of his B-17 when I was in Florida on tour. I love Mac!!!
As far as the 262 goes I think just getting it on line for a while would be a good idea before I hit Rob up for 30mm's in the nose. I have actually breached (pun also intended) the idea of some sort of booming nose guns in the ME-262 and, as with anything else, he is always supportive.
I do wonder why Rob always shakes his head when he walks away from these kinds of conversations though...
Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:08 pm
Taigh Ramey wrote:My plan is to get propane or oxy/acetylene guns into the turrets and keep blank firing 50's in the waist positions.
Rob is a go for pulling the fuel tanks out of the gun bays on the P-51C so blank or gas guns would be a good candidate for that as well as the 262. Rob is the easy part; it's Wayne that I am worried about since the Mustang belongs to Wayne not Rob!
It was the same with the B-17. It doesn't matter if Rob says its okay for me to mess with the 17 as it isn't his airplane; it belongs to Mac.
Mac is the guy that I have to be careful to catch on the right day and time. I have found that he is the most approachable at Applebees after we have been there a little while...
He let me fly in the left seat of his B-17 when I was in Florida on tour. I love Mac!!!
As far as the 262 goes I think just getting it on line for a while would be a good idea before I hit Rob up for 30mm's in the nose. I have actually breached (pun also intended) the idea of some sort of booming nose guns in the ME-262 and, as with anything else, he is always supportive.
I do wonder why Rob always shakes his head when he walks away from these kinds of conversations though...
Awesome, thanks for the info, Taigh! From some of your thoughts about the future, it sounds like that program will improve with time and become much, much more realistic! I know, I for one, would shell about 5K to be a part of that!
You're right, though, take baby steps at first. Sounds like a good plan to at least get the 262 flying first. I couldn't even imagine seeing a 262 firing real blanks in the air at me from the C model or the B-24, B-17. Truly awesome!
One more question: If you do use a gun firing real blanks in either the P-51 or 262, what do you do with the expended shell casings? Would you have to modify the guns to store them in a container? I couldn't imagine the FAA would be too happy with having them scatter all over the countryside at 8,000 ft. I guess you could do the firing down low over private land, at the same spot as the bombing range.