Warbird Information Exchange

HI GUYS, WELL IT SEEMS THAT THERE MAYBE NO END TO THIS SUBJECT!!FIRST LETS CLEAR THE AIR, ANY COLLECTION OF DISPLAYED NAVAL A/C IS OK BY ME!!IF YOU WOULD HAVE READ MY LAST POST YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT ITS THE RECOVERY POLICY THAT THE CURRENT MANAGMENT DICTATES AND SUPPORTS THAT BLOWS ME AWAY!!!MAYBE THE WORD SPECK WAS A BIT HARSH BUT YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THE GOALS AND ACHEVMENTS MADE BY GENERAL METCALF AND HIS STAFF TO COLLECT HISTORICAL ITEMS, A/C ECT IS NOTHING SHORT OF FANTASTIC!! SEVERAL A/C OF THE SAME TYPE ON DISPLAY IS OK BUT LETS REMEMBER THAT VARIETY IS THE SPICE OF LIFE!!THE NAVY HAS SEVERAL HOLES IN THEIR COLLECTION THAT COULD BE FILLED BY LOOKING AT THEIR POLICY ON RECOVERY AND TRADES,THAT IS WHAT I MENT BY TAKING NOTES!!!WHY DISPLAY A RARE F4F AT A VFW WHEN IN THE RIGHT HANDS IT COULD BE RESTORED AND DISPLAYED IN A MUCH MORE USER FRIENDLY DISPLAY SPACE ,HOW MANY RARE A/C HAVE BEEN VANDALIZED AND DESTROYED THAT WERE DISPLAYED IN THE SAME MATTER?PARK DISPLAYS ,ARE COOL BUT A LOT OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME RESPECT OF THESE ARTIFACTS THAT WE DO. THEY LET THEIR KIDS OR WORSE THEMSELVES DEFACE THESE DISPLAYS ,THE WAR PROTESTERS SEEM TO FOCUS ON THESE UNPROTECTED ARTIFACTS TO MAKE THEIR POINT,ECT.MAYBE THAT IS WHY SOME MUSEUMS HAVE ROPES AROUND THEIR A/C.THE ENOLA GAY IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE!!SICKO WAR PROTESTERS WOULD LOVE TO DEFACE THIS A/C SO SECURITY DOES HAVE ITS PLACE EVEN IN A MUSEUM!! I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH JIM CURRY WITH SEVERAL LETTERS, PHONE CALLS ECT FROM THE MUSEUM TRYING TO MAKE A FAIR TRADE.THE LAST COMMUNICATION WAS THEY ARE TRYING TO COME UP WITH A DOWN PAYMENT TO HOLD SHOP SPACE TO START THEIR PROJECT. WHY NOT SELL A WILDCAT OR TWO TO RAISE THE MONEY TO HAVE A TOTALLY RESTORED SB2C ON DISPLAY?DO THEY NEED 23 OR 24 WILDCATS / DAUNTLESSES SITTING AROUND TURNING BACK INTO DUST?IS THIS YOUR IDEA OF BETTERING THE NAVAL MUSEUM?I GAVE THEM A PRICE OF THE RESTORATION PLUS 1 RECOVERED F4F AS TRADE FOR THE SB2C IF THIS IS UNREASONABLE THEN THEY MUST GET USE TO NOT HAVING NEW A/C TO DISPLAY. THE A.F. MUSEUM SOLD A FEW HELICOPTERS TO PAY FOR THE A25 RESTORATION,THE TOTAL AMOUNT WAS IN AN ACCOUNT BEFORE THEY EVER SIGNED ANYTHING!!! MY PROJECTS ARE ALL FOR SALE TO THE FIRST GROUP WITH THE MONEY TO PAY FOR IT.I HAVE ENOUGH STUFF TO BUILD UP 4 SB2CS ALL ARE IN ROUGH BUT REBUILDABLE CONDITION.SO TO WIND THIS UP THE NAVY MUSEUM HAS SOME VERY FINE DISPLAYS,I THINK IT COULD TAKE SOME MAJOR LEAPS WITH SOME OPEN MINDED THINKING ON TRADES RECOVERYS ECT.ONE ONLY NEEDS TO LOOK AT THE A.F. MUSEUMS POLICYS TO MAKE SOME POSITIVE CHANGES THAT WOULD BENIFIT ALL OF US!! IM NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF TRYING TO CHANGE YOU MIND OR ANYBODY ELSE MY JOB IS TO RECOVER RESTORE AND DISPLAY AS MANY A.F./ NAVY A/C AS POSSIBLE!!AS FOR YOU MR. NOBODY ENJOY THE NAVY MUSEUM IF YOU WOULD LIKE SOME VARIETY COME TO MINESOTA AND SEE A RESTORED SB2C-1A OR SOON TO DAYTON AFTER IT SHIPS OUT,UNTIL THEN TRY TO FIND OUT THE FACTS BEFORE YOU FILL IN THE BLANKS A/C ARE LIKE TEETH IF YOU IGNOR THEM LONG ENOUGH THEY WILL DISAPEAR !!!HAPPY HUNTING !!!MIKE

Mike-I don't see any reason to be insulting. You have a beef with the NMNA take it out on them, not a part time museum volunteer. Is he "Mr. Nobody" because he's not in the business of "recovering, restoring and displaying" aircraft? Gary

NO GARY I WAS REFERING TO HIS OWN COMMENT ON BEING MR. NOBODY I DONT KNOW HIM PERSONALLY AND HAVE NO BEEF WITH HIM OR ANYBODY ELSE HERE I POSTED MY FEELINGS ON NAVY POLICY AND WHAT I FEEL THAT COULD IMPROVE THESES ISSUES,AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED MR OWEN HAS THE SAME LOVE AND INTEREST AS ALL OF US ITS ABOUT PRESERVING AS MANY ARTIFACTS AS POSSIBLE BEFORE THERE ALL GONE.DOES THE NAVY HAVE A WIDGON ON DISPLAY? MAYBE YOU CAN DONATE YOURS HE HE!! MIKE

Yes they do...and why aren't you at the hanger hard at work? Maybe I'll see you tomorrow. Gary

OK SO IM GOOFING OFF AGAIN!!ILL BE THERE TODAY THEN OFF TO WOTN TONIGHT THEN BACK TO ANOKA TILL 3 OR 4 IN THE MORNING SEE YA MIKE

DITO again Mike,

don't hold your breath with curry either... delt with him .. won't commit to anything....will string you along... my experience is "if you can get it (and we the navy let you) then you spend the money and time to rebuild it and then you can donate it to us" that sure seems fair to me....they won't give you anything...and i have several other horor stories with people that have delt with them...good luck

Col. Rohr,
If you're planning on doing something like this, have you thought through all the possible post-event scenarios? Just thinking that there might be unintended consequences that should be addressed beforehand that haven't been thought of yet.
For instance. We wouldn't want to see a victory for aircraft owners only to see some goofball bunch go try and get those Devastators or some other rare bird and mess up.

Ryan

_________________
Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

Hi fellas,

I have stepped back a bit from our discussions and given careful
consideration to our debate. I have taken to heart some of the
things you've said. In what follows I will use some quotes from
your previous posts.

Mike told me to "try and find out the facts before you fill in the
blanks". Well that's kinda what I've been trying to do in a way.
I am the first to admit I don't know everything about this entire
matter. As an example I didn't know of the Barber's Point affair. From some of your posts (not singling out Mike) it is apparent that there are gaps in your knowledge as well.

Dan said if I could "sway the policy I would be immortalized by
the board". Well one guy (certainly not me) can't do it alone.
Rob said "it's you that can make a difference" and "people like
ourselves need to start the ball rolling.

With that in mind I called Buddy Macon. Buddy and I have been
friends since before he became the deputy director, we are friends
now, and I hope we will continue to be friends when we're both
old retired guys. We discussed the overall situation extensively, he read the comments in this string and the NAV-OPS BB.

Buddy has asked me to invite any and all of you to come to the
museum and discuss the matter. We can tour the museum,
the restoration facility, and the building where the Lake Birds
are stored. (That's last one is for you Rob. You can count them,
see the anti-corrosion treatment done on them and inspect them.)

Then we can all sit down and discuss the matter. Nothing will be
off limits and everyone will be heard. Who sets a policy and who
does not, what is legal and what is not, who has the power to
change the policy and who does not are subjects to be addressed. You will also get to hear some interesting 'other side of the stories". All your concerns can be voiced, suggestions offered, and ideas expressed. Buddy wants your input.

Notes will be taken of these concerns and suggestions. They will
be forwarded to the appropriate powers-that-be in Washington.

We can hold this meeting at Cubi Point in the museum, at Buddy's
home, or if a lot of you want to come, at the Holiday Inn on Pen-
sacola Beach. Buddy will buy the first round of drinks and we'll go
from there.

The only ground rules I will set are that we are to discuss this as
gentlemen. There will no no name calling, invectives, or shouting.
(No in their face stuff Rob.)

You guys get together and decide when you would like to do this.
I will need a few days notice to take a day of vacation from my
job in Mobile as I want to be there too.

Fellas, I think this is the olive branch someone mentioned in an
earlier post. I can't promise you'll get everything you want but
I can promise you that you will be heard by NMNA's management.
This is an opportunity for us all to concentrate on what we share
in common and address the issues where we differ. We all want
these old birds preserved for furure generations. Let's come to-
gether and proceed together. I've done my part. The door is
open and you have a chance to change things for the better.

WHO WILL BE THE FIRST TO STEP UP AND JOIN ME??????

Blue skies,
Owen

DEMANDS??????..........DEMANDS?...........

Come on Rob, demands? The man has extended you an in-
vitation and this is how you respond? Dear God, can you
hear yourself? You sound like Jesse Jackson!

Buddy will read this and we'll see what he says but it sounds
to me like you're looking for a way to back out and blame it
on him.

He said anybody and everybody so that would include OLeary and your attourney. But I don't know about
getting folks from DC or USAFM.

Come on guys, who wants to make this work and not shout
demands????

Owen

HI AGAIN ,I THINK THIS COULD BE A POSITIVE STEP TO AT LEAST ALL MEET AND TRY TO GET THE BALL ROLLING!! AS FAR AS DEMANDS GO I THINK THAT AN AGRESSIVE HOSTILE ATTITUDE WOULD BE A TURN OFF AND EMBARASSMENT TO ALL INVOLVED .WE NEED TO ACT LIKE GENTLEMEN THIS IS AN OPERTUNITY THAT MANY OF US HAVE LONGED FOR.THIS IS NOT A COURT CASE ,NO ONES ON TRIAL SO AS FAR AS LAWYERS GO I WOULD FEEL MORE AT EASE IF THEY STAYED HOME!!THE MORE CASUAL THE MEETING THE MORE LIKELY THE REAL ISSUES COULD BE TALKED ABOUT.THE FOCUS SHOULD REMAIN ON THE ISSUE OF THE RECOVERY AND PRESEVATION OF ABANDON AIRCRAFT/ARTIFACTS BY THE PRIVATE SECTOR,A CHANGE OF CURRENT POLICY TO MAKE A/C THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN RECOVERED AS TRADING STOCK FOR MUCH RARER A/C TO FILL HOLES IN THIER COLLECTION!!THE MORE WE ARE INFORMED AND PREPAIRED THE BETTER CHANCE WE HAVE TO PROVIDE A POSITIVE AND PROFESIONAL VIEW POINT TO HELP MAKE A CHANGE THAT WE ALL THINK WOULD BENIFIT EVERYONE INVOLVED.WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS AS AN ICE BREAKER TO GET THESE ISSUES DIRECTED TO THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM.PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE NO LOOSE CANNONS I THINK IF WE STICK TO THE POINT,ACT RESPONSIBLE,AND GET THE SUPPORT OF OTHER WARBIRD OWNERS/OPERATORS THAT HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT NAVAL POLICY TO BE THERE AS A SHOW OF SUPPORT AND TO PUT IN THIER THOUGHTS ON THE ISSUES AT HAND.IF YOU MISS THE BOAT BLAME YOURSELF.IF THIS HAPPENS LET THOSE WHO MAY HAVE A STAKE IN THIS KNOW IN ADVANCE SO AS TO MAKE PLANS TO BE THERE.I NEED A FEW WEEKS FOR SURE TO ARANGE MY SCHEDULE BUT WOULD LOVE TO BE THERE!!POST YOUR THOUGHTS LETS KEEP THIS A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE IT MAY BE THE FIRST BABY STEP TO A BETTER WORLD FOR ALL OF US!!THANKS MIKE

ONE LAST THING, THANKS FOR YOUR EFFORTS OWEN THIS MAYBE THE FIRST STEPPING STONE!!MIKE

Well said Mike. more ants have been caught with honey than vinegar.

I would dearly love to see some or all of the airframes recovered that have been mentioned.

the big question though for me is although you are talking a change to the policy within america, as is obvious from the dept of the interior bit, shouldn't there also be some form of freedom for for recovery outside the US as well?

not to mention some form of protection for the people who, sometimes through no fault of their own, have these airframes within their territory but are unable to take care of them, eg new guinea.

I'd hate to see various airframes simply grabbed from there and disappear with no reward to the people who have been their custodians for so long.

_________________
Jeff

Owen-

Can you contact me off board? tim@ensi.com

Thanks

Mike, you're very welcome. I hope we can all work together to
restore, preserve, and display these histortic warbirds. If a few
more wound up in the air again that wopuld be even better.

Come on fellas, whose with me?????

Blue skies,
Owen