CAF HA-1112 circa 1975

[Speedy]

Okay...this topic may have been covered before, but I haven't seen it.

At one of the CAF demonstrations (not sure if it was Airsho, or another one) around 1975 or so, one of the Buchon's operated by the CAF didn't so much 'land gear up' as it more 'flew into the ground on a low pass' during the show.

Anyone have any information as to what airframe it was (I remember it had the black zig-zag pattern on the nose, as well as the 'eyes' under the spinner/prop), when/where it took place, and who the pilot was?

Brad

[Chunks]

I can't answer any of your questions, but I was there and saw it. I remember as it hit the ground the P-47 passed overhead. The next morning a swastika had been added to the canopy rail

Chunks

[Chad Veich]

I think this was N8575 which crashed fatally in '87 as I recall.

[retroaviation]

The prop from that incident is hanging in the main hangar at the CAF in Midland, but other than that, I don't know any further info on it. The only Buchon report I have (from that era) in the book of CAF Accident History that Bob Stenevik put together, is a ground loop on October 24, 1973, in Brownwood, TX.

Sorry I'm not more help.

Gary

[Speedy]

The prop from that incident is hanging in the main hangar at the CAF in Midland, but other than that, I don't know any further info on it. The only Buchon report I have (from that era) in the book of CAF Accident History that Bob Stenevik put together, is a ground loop on October 24, 1973, in Brownwood, TX.

Sorry I'm not more help.

Gary

There is no NTSB listing of it, either....

I've seen pictures of it, and heard accounts of it...but nobody seems to want to 'own' it.

[bluehawk15]

That happened at Airsho '76. My first airshow as a newly minted (or was that mint juliped?) CAF Colonel at the tender young age of 18!

I have some slides that I shot with my trusty Kodak X-15 instamatic that I'll try to get posted when I can locate them and get them scanned. Oh, and they aren't far away shots, nor are they action shots, they were taken after the show up close and personal as I was able to hitch a ride with some A&P types who wanted to check out the damage and come up with a plan to get it out of the middle of the field.

[bdk]

Doesn't seem to be in the NTSB database either which is a bit surprising.

[bluehawk15]

Not so surprising if you knew how things operated down there back then!

[k5083]

I have the Air Classics covering this show with a rather harsh write-up and photos of the incident. As I recall, it did not name the pilot.

August

[Speedy]

I have the Air Classics covering this show with a rather harsh write-up and photos of the incident. As I recall, it did not name the pilot.

August

I think I have that too. I also have the Air Classics that covers the 1975 show...where it talks about Lefty taking the same plane up on it's ONE flight of the weekend, and having about four different emergencies in the time it took to take off and fly one lap around the pattern.

[Robbie Stuart]

Brad, from what I have dug up, the airplane ran out of altitude during a low pass. I believe it was one of the Whittington brothers flying. It was 1976, & Gen Tibbets was getting ready with the Fifi crew to do the reenactment of of dropping the A Bomb when it happened. I do not know which Buchon it was for sure.
Robbie

[Jerry O'Neill]

Brad, from what I have dug up, the airplane ran out of altitude during a low pass. I believe it was one of the Whittington brothers flying. It was 1976, & Gen Tibbets was getting ready with the Fifi crew to do the reenactment of of dropping the A Bomb when it happened. I do not know which Buchon it was for sure.
Robbie

To bad he wasn't watching the altitude gauge a little more closely.
He might have notice he was running low on altitude.
Jerry

[airnutz]

one of the Buchon's operated by the CAF didn't so much 'land gear up' as it more 'flew into the ground on a low pass' during the show.

(Airnutz memory alarm..Oooga! Ooooga!)
I thought N8575 failed to clear an irrigation berm off field, but the result was the same. The reason he ran out of altitude
was due to fuel starvation, probably why Lefty experienced "short hops"previously. Dunno who the pilot was, sorry.

I'm surprised Bdk didn't remember the thread..it was the 2nd time he was wrong that year(Merlin 500 Carbs had floats).
I remembered it because I got schooled on A/C engine fuel systems.

Warbirdnerd pulled this up about 5 years ago:
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Here is the NTSB report on the Buchon accident...

NTSB Identification: FTW88DRG04 .
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 35613.
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, December 19, 1987 in HARLINGEN, TX
Probable Cause Approval Date: 2/14/1989
Aircraft: MBB 109, registration: N8575
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
THE SET OF FLOATS WHICH ALLOWS A HIGH FUEL FLOW IN THIS CARBURETOR FOR HIGH POWER SETTINGS USED FOR TAKEOFF, CLIMB, ETC., HAD CRACKED AND SWOLLEN TO SUCH AN EXTENT THAT THEY WERE RUBBING AGAINST THE FLOAT CHAMBER WALLS AND FLOAT CHAMBER SHROUD TUBES. THIS INTERFERENCE PREVENTED ADEQUATE FUEL FLOW FOR HIGH POWER OPERATION OF THE ENGINE DURING THE TAKEOFF CLIMB WHICH TERMINATED IN THE ACCIDENT. THERE WERE NO ENTRIES IN THE MAINTENANCE LOGS WHICH INDICATED ANY MAINTENANCE OR INTERNAL EXAMINATION OF THE CARBURETOR SINCE THE AIRCRAFT WAS NEW (1959).


The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

AIRSPEED(VS)..NOT MAINTAINED..PILOT IN COMMAND
FUEL SYSTEM,CARBURETOR FLOAT..DETERIORATED
FUEL SYSTEM,CARBURETOR FLOAT..MOVEMENT RESTRICTED

Index for Dec1987 | Index of months
_________________

[Robbie Stuart]

Brad, from what I have dug up, the airplane ran out of altitude during a low pass. I believe it was one of the Whittington brothers flying. It was 1976, & Gen Tibbets was getting ready with the Fifi crew to do the reenactment of of dropping the A Bomb when it happened. I do not know which Buchon it was for sure.
Robbie

To bad he wasn't watching the altitude gauge a little more closely.
He might have notice he was running low on altitude.
Jerry

Ya know, I hate it when that happens, it's rough on a lot of things, CAF's reputation, Pilot's reputation, airplane's prop & underside, PILOT'S UNDERSIDE! I do seem to remember this was the same aircraft lost in 87. I had helped Herb Puckett Annual the airplane in 81, & 83 back when Carl Payne flew it. Carl was busy with his spray business, & could not get down to the valley until the Saturday of Airsho in 83, so I got my buddy Merle Gustafson to test fly it after the Annual . After a couple flights ole Merle say's "Da-n I know why the German's lost the war now"!

[Jerry O'Neill]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the NTSB report on the Buchon accident...

NTSB Identification: FTW88DRG04 .
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 35613.
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, December 19, 1987 in HARLINGEN, TX
Probable Cause Approval Date: 2/14/1989
Aircraft: MBB 109, registration: N8575
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
THE SET OF FLOATS WHICH ALLOWS A HIGH FUEL FLOW IN THIS CARBURETOR FOR HIGH POWER SETTINGS USED FOR TAKEOFF, CLIMB, ETC., HAD CRACKED AND SWOLLEN TO SUCH AN EXTENT THAT THEY WERE RUBBING AGAINST THE FLOAT CHAMBER WALLS AND FLOAT CHAMBER SHROUD TUBES. THIS INTERFERENCE PREVENTED ADEQUATE FUEL FLOW FOR HIGH POWER OPERATION OF THE ENGINE DURING THE TAKEOFF CLIMB WHICH TERMINATED IN THE ACCIDENT. THERE WERE NO ENTRIES IN THE MAINTENANCE LOGS WHICH INDICATED ANY MAINTENANCE OR INTERNAL EXAMINATION OF THE CARBURETOR SINCE THE AIRCRAFT WAS NEW (1959).


The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

AIRSPEED(VS)..NOT MAINTAINED..PILOT IN COMMAND
FUEL SYSTEM,CARBURETOR FLOAT..DETERIORATED
FUEL SYSTEM,CARBURETOR FLOAT..MOVEMENT RESTRICTED

Index for Dec1987 | Index of months
_________________

I think this is a different incident. The one that has been under discussion here happened in 1975 or 76.
Jerry