Indonesian Warbirds (and Hi from Jakarta)

[aseanaero]

T-6 should run fine on 91 octane auto gas unless it has alchohol.

Thanks BDK, the T6 was parked due to lack of avgas which is on a quota system here now as the local oil company seems to want to push everyone to turbines and is running between $10 to $16 a US gallon.

I met with the Colonel last week who looks after the T-6 and he was excited that there was a precedent for mogas, mogas runs at $3.50 to $5 US gallon (depending on world oil price) so it makes a huge difference to operating cost.

Most of the trainers here are now running on mogas (older 172s) and most of the piston twins have been grounded as they can't get fuel in remote areas. We had some Diamond diesels coming in but with the demise of Thielert that has now stopped.

Hopefully the Indonesian AF folks will be more benevolent than ours!

The air force is very pro aviation history they just can't fund it , we have an excellent relationship with them. So now I'm trying to do my bit help them out. Who knows what may happen in the future.

[Starduster77]

Is there a TS-8 Bies Polish made plane in there?
Have been looking for one.
Thanks
Rick

[steve dickey]

Well observed Tom

Most of the damage from the humidity here is when you give the moisture something to bond to , for example dust and dirt which then holds the mositure causing corrosion.

Once the moisture has a foothold it turns into a fungus which really holds the mositure and it will finish most aircraft paint jobs and cause serious surface corrosion for aircraft parked outside with 8 to 10 yrs (you can see an example of the fungus on the top of the Grumman Albatross photo)

Most of these aircraft get washed every few weeks which keeps them in reasonable shape.

The biggest enemy is water sitting in crevices and dis-similar metal corrosion, this is the factor that causes big dollar damage like main spars , wing attachments etc. It rains A LOT here.



This photo is from a HS-748 I broke up for salvage last year , this is in the wing root / fuselage area . This aircraft had been parked for 4 years , it looks like it came from an underwater wreck salvage than from an aircraft. The tail inspection hatch was hard to open and I found out why , the whole tail behind the pressure bulkhead was full of water , at least 100 gallons of water in there. So water gets inside long term parked aircraft in large quantities from monsoon storms.

The sun and moisture will eat through Ceconite fabric coating in 3 to 5 years , if you look at one of the mustang photos you can also see what looks like 3 rat holes in the elevator , they probably are rat holes

The other thing is the lack of vandalism and removing parts for souvenirs, at least 25% are in areas where they aren't under supervision and other than the 'authorised' graffiti on the A-4 (Franks A-4) in one of the photos above the kids here aren't into vandalising parked aircraft, displays or monuments.

Hi Tony, thanks for the Jeep photos, never really knew that Four-wheeling was so popular in your neck of the woods , that is so cool .
I have a question: Whats a HS-748 . Not to doubt the rats from chewing holes in the the rudder but the bottom of the rudder has four "lighning holes" and it looks like these are opened up.
Also is there anyway you can close the co-pilots window on the Albtross? That way water doesn't have a free entrance? Thanks again for the input, really really interesting about the no-vandilism

[aseanaero]

Is there a TS-8 Bies Polish made plane in there?

They were used by the Indonesian Air Force but I've never seen one , I'll ask around

[aseanaero]

I have a question: Whats a HS-748

This is a Hawker Siddely HS-748 , basically a competitor to the F27 , also runs Rolls Royce Dart engines.

They are built like TANKS especially around the cockpit area.

In the photo you can see the dreaded black fungus forming , the crazy thing is it washes straight off with soap and a pressure washer but when they get parked that's it, no more attention.

Not to doubt the rats from chewing holes in the the rudder but the bottom of the rudder has four "lighning holes" and it looks like these are opened up

Ok , I learnt something today ! I garuantee there is wildlife in the P-51 rudder now.

never really knew that Four-wheeling was so popular in your neck of the woods

4 wheeling and Harley riding are big favorites with the Generals and other assorted rich of Indonesia, usually they participate in both past times.

Also is there anyway you can close the co-pilots window on the Albtross?

Easier said than done , I can ask nicely next time I'm down there. I was pushing the friendship just taking the photo as it's inside the base.

If you look at the photos she is pretty far gone

[steve dickey]

Thanks Tony, I too learned something today . When I was in A&P school I was able to procure from a friend a Rolls Royce "Badge" form a Vickers Vicount.(they were metal and Screwed or riveted on) In the picture it doesn't look like they are on the nacelle about where the two red squares are. Thats where they are on the Vicount.

[aseanaero]

The Rolls Royce badges I gave to the air force guys , they are also on the cowling of the '748

Last edited by aseanaero on Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

[mustangdriver]

Very cool thread, and welcome aboard. It is cool to see warbirds from around the world.

[tom d. friedman]

interesting preservation strategy & knowledge. the lack of vandalism comes from the new generation of kids who could give a flying rats *ss about aviation history sad to say.

[Warbirdnerd]

Here's some photos off airliners.net

SATRIA MANDALA MUSEUM (DOWNTOWN JAKARTA)

What is the green bird in the background of this shot?

[aseanaero]

the lack of vandalism comes from the new generation of kids who could give a flying rats *ss about aviation history sad to say.

I can't tell you why but you just don't see military monuments vandalized or sprayed with graffiti, probably comes from 35 yrs of military rule during the Soeharto era were offenders would be severely punished.

The only aircraft that are somewhat preserved are in the museums and they do their best with very limited funding but some of the wood framed aircraft are totally rotted due to the humidity.

The monuments get washed and repainted occasionally but they are deteriortating. I've tried to buy or swap some of the gate gaurdians and it was a very touchy subject that just got a big frown for an answer. They are in the holy relic category and a no go subject.

[aseanaero]

What is the green bird in the background of this shot?

From memory a Mitsubishi A6M5 Zero with no canopy (I'm happy to be corrected by the experts), it probably has the canopy back on now

There were a lot of Japanese aircraft left here as Indonesia was under Japanese occupation during WW2

[steve dickey]

What is the green bird in the background of this shot?

From memory a Mitsubishi A6M5 Zero with no canopy (I'm happy to be corrected by the experts), it probably has the canopy back on now

There were a lot of Japanese aircraft left here as Indonesia was under Japanese occupation during WW2

Looks to me like its the Oscar but if you save it and zoom in it appeares to have a longer canopy than what an Oscar should have? The only other Japenese A/C is a type 98 but those have a
square tail. From the link provided by Tony.
Just gonna have to wait till Tony can get back on base

http://members.tripod.com/~imogiri/aircraft/jap2.jpg

[daveymac82c]

That little green plane got my attention too.

It looks to be a Nakajima Ki-27 Otsu:

http://thaimilitary.wordpress.com/2008/ ... f-and-rtn/

Cheers,

David

P.S. I didn't actually know what it was until Mr. Google told me.

[aseanaero]

Just gonna have to wait till Tony can get back on base

Not on a base , this one's in Central Jakarta in the Satria Mandala Museum.

I can try and get out there over the next few weeks and photograph them properly.

MUSTANGS/A-26/B-25s etc.

I've been searching for 2 yrs for a WW2 warbirds not in a museum or pole or caches of spares that may be declared surplus but so far nothing and I've been on most of the bases in Java. If they are on a pole or a museum they are already 'sacred'. The Mustang outside Halim base has just been repainted last week so they are starting to spend money on maintaining them. Most of the exotic warbirds were cleared out by dealers and collectors 25 years ago.

I found a Mig 17 engine in a crate but it has a BER tag and there's no logs.

The local scrap dealers usually call by the warehouse when they have done a warehouse clearance and I've scored some NOS C-47 parts which I have yet to catalogue so I have my local scouts as well.

There is a huge scrap industry here due to the low labor costs and I know for sure that most of the Russian aircraft (and chinese, czech, polish licenced versions) were just cut up for scrap, this includes most of the Migs, L-29s, Tu-16s.

The Air Force does its best to retain a few of each types for historical value but there is no civilian groups or individuals who are interested or have the resources to do it.

The photo of the Ivchenko AN-12 engine in the back of the J20 pick up was in storage since 1964, it was still in perfect NOS condition still with desicant bags but calender timex (13 years for these engines). I ended up selling that to a Russian guy operating AN-12s in West Africa a few weeks later. That was probably one of the last of the Russian spares that was purged from inventory.

Doing this sort business here is a bit like an Indiana Jones movie, rumors, false leads, the occassional incidents with local mafias etc. Then there are logistic problems and language barriers. Outside of Jakarta maybe 5% speak English , my Indonesian is pretty good after 10yrs and I know how to deal with these guys and not get taken to the cleaners.

I spend a lot of time chasing false leads and real deals can take at least a year to work through the paperwork if its owned by the military and that is meeting them every few weeks to follow up not just sitting around after you send in a letter. I have a project now that started officially in April 2008 but it was from a lead a year previously , it took 1 year to find who the real decision makers are and actually meet them , they wont tell you anything until the 3rd or 4th meeting.

My gut feeling is there ARE still some worthwhile prizes about , mainly spares, but these are items that have been mislabeled , dropped off the inventory or otherwise unknown to the system. I'm slowly finding them.