Warbird Information Exchange

On the same chord as my "Who can do the job?" thread....

I was wondering how much skill would you say I'd need to tackle a restoration project. Say something like a Stearman or a Harvard restoration?

For many people doing tackling restoation projects, do they farm out things they can't do themselves?

With my very basic skills of having participated in fabricing once or twice and using clecos and bucking bars.... would I have enough in my noggin' to take on a project of any size?

As well, I know there are many people that take on projects who are not AME's (Certified Aircraft Maintenance Engineers - just in case it's called something different in the USA) yet they are able to produce flyable airplanes without help from anyone.

My question with regards to that, is when does a person require a certified mechanic to inspect airframe parts during a restoration?

Thanks,

David

Probably need to split your "Restoration" into two. Restoration to flying condition or restoration to static. Restoration to static...golly, I can spread bondo and spray paint, but to flyable condition is a totally different set of criteria. Restoration to flight has so much more in-depth work that has to be done, inspected, reinspected, broken down and rebuilt, parts scrounged or make from scratch....This the kind of restoration you are looking for?

And then you have the superficial question of "what date in time do you want this vintage warbird restored to" Even MNUSAF and the Smithsonian have problems with that one. Someone will always complain about whatever you paint on the AC!

Hey Holedigger,

Thanks for getting back to me. To answer your question, I'd be aiming for an airworthy restoration.

As for what project I have in mind, well.... on barnstormers.com I sometimes come across projects that are well within my means to purchase, but wouldn't have a clue how or where to start with it.

Projects like Fairchild 24's or Stearmans, J-3's.... that's what I'm seeing, and if I were to ever buy a project it would be one of those fabric jobs.

Then there's the superficial question of when I'd want the restoration completed.... well, that I don't know. I love flying and would love a flying machine sooner rather than later, but I've heard that restoring an airplane is often more satisfying then flying it. I'd like to find out.

I sure expect that flying an airplane that you personally restored is an amazing feeling and really allows you to call it your own.

Thanks again,

David

I know I wouldn't want to fly in anything I had rebuilt unless I had a LOT of "adult" supervision.

I would think a good starting point would be to find a group doing a restoration similar to what you think you might want to try and hang out, help as much as they let you, develop friendships and a knowledge base to dip into. Cars are bad enough to fix, and you can just pull over when those stop. At 6,000 feet, it gets more complicated!

I agree with Holedigger. I'm a pilot not a mechanic. I know I would never fly an airplane that I personally restored unless I had a LOT of supervision from A&P's and an AI. Restoration to a flying standard is a whole new ballpark and not something I take lightly. I know my limitations and would never exceed them. I have flying ability, I have no mechanical ability.

If you are serious about learning your craft, I would participate in the rebuilding of someone else's restoration first. Have a mechanic be your mentor and teach you the basics of restoration. Get lots of experience. After that, you might be comfortable tackling an easy light restoration with a LOT of supervision.

Like Holedigger said, airplanes are not cars, you can't just pull over on the side of the road if something goes wrong. Remember, you are taking your life into your own hands with everything you touch on your airplane. It's best to get someone who knows what they are doing to check your work and make sure everything is done safely and properly.

I know that here in the U.S., you can go to Junior College's (2 year institutions) and take classes in aircraft maintenance. Could you not do something similar up there in Canada? You could take a few classes to get some introduction to airplane mechanics.

My two cents.

Thank you for the responses.... yeah I certainly wouldn't want to tackle anything difficult without major help.

In fact, this thread was not created because I'm going to buy a project, but more that if I or anyone else were considering it, they'd have some input from the WIX population.

My involvement with the local air museum has given me some experience, and if I can find time to volunteer on some more restoration jobs, then I could strengthen my skills to a point where some aspects of a project I could handle myself, but obviously not too much.

Besides picking up skills at the museum, I've made friends with some very talented individuals who've worked on the museum's planes as well as their own. They'd be a great wealth of knowledge, I'm sure.

I bet that if I were to restore a plane on my own I'd take every little piece to an AME friend to have it looked over before I move on to anything else.

On top of that I feel Lucky that I've got a lot of patience and attention to detail, so maybe one day I'll be able to pull off some sort of restoration.

Up here in Canada we do have a few aviation maint. programs and they are really first class places; specifically the BCIT Aerospace School. They've got a great facility with lots to play on. That being said, I don't quite have the money to take one of their courses, and on top of that I'm a pilot working on my already costly instructor rating.

Thanks again guys,

David

This will make .04 cents.

Don't take on any restoration project without being supervised by a certificated mechanic. You have a couple different options;

1. A standard category aircraft, including limited, restricted, and pretty much anything other than experimental, has to be completed in accordance with (in the states) the FAR's. A person without a A&P certificate can only work on (repair, or fabricate) an airplane under the direct supervision of a certificated A&P mechanic.

2. Experimental aircraft have loser reg's but I still would not attempt to build one weather it is a home-built, or experimental warbird without being supervised.

It's to easy to get into trouble.

I say that if you want to tackle a restoration project you need to examine your skills. Can you handle tools and know what a tool is supposed to by used for? Have you ever built anything, from plans, from scratch? If so then you can probably do it. You might want to think of doing a boat or a car first just to see if you really can apply yourself to a mechanical project.

When it comes to restoring an aircraft you need to learn first that everything is different, maybe not "better" or "stronger" but different. Hardware, wood, fabric, steel, aluminum virtually everything has different specifications from common home, auto or boat hardware. Aircraft a delicate balance between light weight and strength. Knowing that and understanding how that affects your work is key.

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"I can't understand it, I cut it twice and it's still too short!" Robert F. Dupre' 1923-2010 Go With God.

Skills, schmills...

I think the secret to completing any project is your personality. Are you realistic about he time you would need to devote? Do you actually complete projects you have started in the past?

If you're the kind of guy that has 100 1/2 built models in the closet, you'll do the same with an aircraft restoration. It is quite a bit of work and you have to invest years. Will your family situation support spending every evening in the garage (or time at the airport) for years on end?

You need the time, the money, and the "stick-to-it-iveness" to finish the job. If you don't have those, the skills don't matter. Unless you are a total klutz, the skills can be readily learned.

P.S. Expect to spend 5-10 years on either a Harvard or a Stearman doing it yourself. YMMV!

And how is that T-6, BDK, speaking of years. Drop by the hangar when you can.

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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Benjamin Franklin, American Statesman, Scientist, Philosopher

Davey: If you want to do a restoration and fly it in a reasonable amount of time, I would suggest finding something like a Cub or Pacer or something similar that is currently flying. From there, work on the skills needed to restore each section of the aircraft, but NOT completely tearing down the aircraft in one shot. If you find that you aren't getting your skills to where you are comfortable with them at a sufficient pace, it wouldn't take long for you to get help and get it back in the air and then evaluate what you need to do. I have a friend at work that is an A&P and has been working on his Stearman for over 15 years now on an original 1 year schedule. Too many people dive into restorations or builds without a good plan and are way too optimistic and end up either never completeing them due to skills problems, money or time pressures. Starting out by piecemeal restoring something that is already flying is a great way to get started and decide if you want to get really serious on a bigger project.

4-1/2 years since I actively started working on it... I've had it for 16 though!

I actually went looking for you a week ago Saturday. Maybe you should come over to my hangar for a change?

Will do, you out during the week at all? I have to do the PSP thing Wed, and Fri but other than that, I'm here all week. Need to show you some Citabria wires, had a little incident....

_________________
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Benjamin Franklin, American Statesman, Scientist, Philosopher

Restoration work on airplanes is a relatively new experience for me. I've worked on vintage cars, a motorcycle a couple of old houses and a historic industrial site and one concept is common to all. It always takes more money than you thought and a lot longer.
Perseverance is also good to have.

best of luck,
Doug.

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"I love the smell of 100LL in the morning."

Probably not this week (during the week)... PM or e-mail about the wires.