When have markings been changed in combat?

famvburg · **Joined:** Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:41 am **Posts:** 540

ISTR reading in a magazine way back about a USSR Tu-4 marked like a USAF B-29 doing something during the Korean War. Sorry I can't be much more vague!

Django · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:59 pm

Django wrote:

Anyone have any pics of the ground crews stripping paint to NMF?

bttt.

I did find this pic on B24bestweb an it shows this aircraft in process of getting stripped. How do you think they did it? A rag and gasoline?

Django · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:03 pm

Oh, and another example not mentioned yet would be the B-29 units painting the underbelly black.

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:07 pm

The Air Resupply Squadron at Mountain Home back in the 1940's-'50's had a bunch of aircraft including H-19's, B-29, and SA-16's that had little or no markings.
I have a slide my father took of one of the units Albatross' and it has no markings at all, just a lot of extra antennas.
They used them to fly behind the lines and drop spies and stuff in Russia, North Korea and China.
Jerry

SPANNERmkV · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:23 pm

Anybody know anything about the legend about USAF planes being repainted in United Nations colours so they could go bomb Serbia under President Clinton?

muddyboots · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:06 pm

Well, since it was a NATO operation I doubt it would have happened. And we didn't bomb the Chinese embassy-that was the Italians.

Quote:

The main element of the operation was the air forces of NATO. The French Navy and Air Force operated the Super Etendard and the Mirage 2000. The Italian Air Force operated with 34 Tornado, 12 F-104, 12 AMX, 2 B-707, the Italian Navy operated with Harrier II. The Royal Air Force operated the Harrier GR7 and Tornado ground attack jets as well as an array of support aircraft. Belgian, Danish, Dutch and Turkish Air Forces operated F-16s. The Spanish Air Force and Canadian Air Force deployed F-18s, making Canadians responsible for 10% of all bombs dropped in the operation. The fighters were armed with both guided and unguided "dumb" munitions, including the Paveway series of laser-guided bombs. The bombing regiment marked the first time the German Luftwaffe actively participated in combat operations since the end of World War II, and the American B-2 Spirit stealth bomber also saw its first combat.

Dan K · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:20 pm

This link includes early attempts to prevent the Hawker Typhoon from being attacked by friendlies:

http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter2/typhoons-1.htm

hurk130 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:29 pm

I was on a researchers pass and was assigned a docent just for my research at the Paul E Garber restoration facility. The docent's name was Ken Robert. He took me around to all the things they had going on at the time and one of them was the Serian. He told me that he was on the team that was working with it. Tamiya Model Company was a major contributor to financing the restoration in exchange for total co-operation with measurements to make their 1/72 and 1/48 model kits.

Sounds like a good deal and it was. As they were sanding the paint off the fuselage from the hinomaru markings and they found the white star painted below that then base paint and bare metal. This confused the researchers who sand very slowly and do lots of homework before. Including infrared photography, etc. Well the technicians stopped and asked their on loan expert from Japan about this. He got very antsy and admitted that the planes flew under a false flag for the missions to Panama. It was thought it would confuse the AA gunners just long enough to get a hit or two on the lock doors. The Japanese expert seemed a bit embarrassed about it being brought up.

Now if I could just get some time with the Rex at Fredericksburg, I would be happy.

jdvoss · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:27 am

When FDR flew to Yalta in 1945 the s/n of his C-54 was changed from 41-107451 to 42-272252. The S/N was not changed back and still retains the wrong number to this very day. 41-107451 went missing over the So. Atlantic during WWII.

Robbie Roberts · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:08 am

Django wrote:

D-day is the obvious example.

Anyone have any pics of the ground crews stripping paint to NMF?

Or painting?

I forget whether it was Gabby Gabreski, Hub Zemke or one of the other Wolfpack pilots(I think it was Gabby) who told about when they were authorized to take their P-47s from OD camo to clean bare metal- he came out to find his aircraft, od the night before, a gleaming silver machine- His crew chief and mechanic had spent the night using gasoline and rags to strip the paint...

Robbie

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:37 am

Robbie,

I read an interview with Bud Anderson somewhere and he recounts mentioning to his crew chief that since there was snow cover over the Continent it would be a good idea to strip the camo off the airplane. The next morning he was greeted with a bare airplane. The crew had stripped the paint overnight, and she was ready for the day's mission.

Chad, every incident of stripping paint I've read about used gasoline and lots of elbow grease. Our neighbor that flew Forts with the 15th AF said they also washed the mud off the bellies with avgas. They hooked up a sprayer hose to a boost pump and had a self-contained source of wash "water". The reasoning was that it was hard to keep a supply of potable water for the men, much less to waste on washing Italian mud off the airplanes. There was a near-unlimited supply of gas, so there you go. And, yes, they did burn down an airplane or two. :oops:

Scott

Django · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:07 am

Washing the mud off with gas? Wow! :shock:

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:32 pm

Django wrote:

Washing the mud off with gas? Wow! :shock:

Kip once told me that the following procedure was followed:

1. Crew chief selects man or men from his crew for the wash detail.
2. Fuel line between the boost pump and #3 engine is disconnected.
3. An adapter and long hose are connected to the fuel feed line.
4. A spent .050 cartridge is modified by drilling small holes around the butt end, just like a shower head, and connected to the other end of the hose.
5. The putt-putt or GPU is fired up, boost pump selected "on" and washing begins.
6. When finished, disconnect the hose, reconnect the fuel line, leak check said line, and let the big bird dry.

I imagine the soil around the hardstands still has a little residue? :wink:

I seem to recall that it took a couple of hundred gallons to completely clean the belly of a B-17.

Scott

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:50 pm

Didn't Robert Scott keep repainting the spinner of his P-40 and changing the fuselage number as well?

old iron · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:08 pm

The Germans sometimes painted aircraft with fictitious unit markings and then published photos to suggest to enemy intelligence that there were more squadrons or more aircraft of a certain type in operation. One good enample of this was their published photos of Heinkel He.100s with non-existant unit markings.

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When have markings been changed in combat?

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