Since people seem to think that the off-topic section is for political discussion, something that is frowned upon, I have temporarily closed the section. ANY political discussions in any other forum will be deleted and the user suspended. I have had it with the politically motivated comments.
Topic locked

Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:50 am

Scott, while I might not necessarily agree with you decision, I appreciate you letting everyone know what happened. I come here to learn more about warbirds and I do get tired of the "arguing" that goes on sometimes. I definitely will miss Bill's posts, but you have to do what you did.

Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:05 am

Thanks Scott.

Michael, it's a fair question, here's my response.
michaelharadon wrote:Bill Greenwood wrote many of the most interesting, provocative, and intelligent posts to appear at the WIX. It's very hard to see how letting him go improves the quality of the site.

Unfortunately he could only accept his interesting, provocative and intelligent posts appearing on WIX.

Just to clarify:

I'm very sorry that Bill was banned; I absolutely agree that many of his posts could be and were amusing insightful and valued. However, for reasons known only to Bill, recently he was unable to accept other's views to any degree.

He had multiple requests to pull back, but merely regarded them as another opportunity for an argument, that was, of course, 'started' by someone else.

Bill was, IMHO, confusing 'freedom of speech' with the our opportunity to listen to his views hammered home without regard or respect for anyone else. On the internet people just walk away, ands we have lost members because of this.

Bill and Broken Wrench are welcome and free to set up their own forum(s) - they have the freedom to invest in their right to pontificate. Here, that's not acceptable, outside Scott's rules. It's not hard.

Bill's thread regarding the original 'threat' to ban him was a public response to my PM pointing out that I was no longer prepared to defend his behaviour to others, speaking as a friend - there had, at that stage been no threat to ban him. I've not had and don't want the option to ban members. Bill made it clear that winning the argument was more important than listening to or respecting anyone. (I'd point out that I fought Bill's corner when he was banned before, I thought perhaps unfairly. But that cut no ice, either. I'd become one of 'them'.)

He was subsequently warned by Scott, and again, I and others asked him to behave differently. Several further posts featured phrases like '...if you want to start an argument' and telling posters they were welcome not to correspond with him. It's not Bill's (or my) forum; it's Scott's, for us to all play by the rules.

Bill had every chance to play nicely and chose not to. It was his call.

It's obviously not fair to talk about others who cannot respond; and I don't want to, I'm just putting my personal views and understanding on record.

Many others have recently decided not to post because of one ex-members behaviour. I look forward to seeing them back. Maybe Bill may aim to change and we'll see him again. If we desperately need his mix of politics and warbirds, a forum is easy to set up. It's a free internet.

Thank you,

Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:19 am

Thank you, James, for a well stated viewpoint. Your description of the other side of the coin is also interesting, provocative and intelligent...so to speak.

Cheers,
Michael

Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:40 am

Scott,

I was disappointed to read your "THATS IT" post, and your contemplation of giving up on us all due to frustration at those who could not follow your rules and warnings.

I was also disappointed to read this BANNING ANNOUNCEMENT as I too will miss Bill, as I enjoyed many of his discussions and points of view, but fully support and acknowledge your right to make such a decision, and appreciate you publicising it rather than leaving a vaccum for rumour and mis-information to develop.

Thankyou also to James for trying to openly explain the background, I do recall the earlier threads and accusations of "threats to ban" which at the time I felt you clarified.

Bill's thread regarding the original 'threat' to ban him was a public response to my PM pointing out that I was no longer prepared to defend his behaviour to others, speaking as a friend - there had, at that stage been no threat to ban him. I've not had and don't want the option to ban members. Bill made it clear that winning the argument was more important than listening to or respecting anyone. (I'd point out that I fought Bill's corner when he was banned before, I thought perhaps unfairly. But that cut no ice, either. I'd become one of 'them'.)

He was subsequently warned by Scott, and again, I and others asked him to behave differently. Several further posts featured phrases like '...if you want to start an argument' and telling posters they were welcome not to correspond with him. It's not Bill's (or my) forum; it's Scott's, for us to all play by the rules.


Unfortunately in this case it seems claims of threatened bans have become a self fulfilling prophesy.

Forums are a great place to share interests, information and even opinions, but it does require consideration and tolerance, and adherance to rules of engagement, and its the perrogative of the site owner to set, and enforce the rules of engagement, even through nominated proxy's or moderators.

Please keep up the good work, it may often be frustrating and thankless, but it is appreciated.

regards

Mark

Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:35 am

Steve wrote:Scott

Are you taking out any postings from ban members ??
some of what they posted was very good

Steve


Steve,
The only editing or removal of posts will only be some of the more recent negative comments. When there is legitimate content I try to edit out the bad stuff and leave the good stuff. I currently have no plans of going further back than a week or so to edit/remove this negative content.

michaelharadon wrote:Bill Greenwood wrote many of the most interesting, provocative, and intelligent posts to appear at the WIX. It's very hard to see how letting him go improves the quality of the site.


I agree, but he also wrote many of the rudest, antagonistic, and down right abusive posts on WIX. He was given numerous warnings and even had his account suspended once. It is not a decision I made lightly but it was necessary. You might not have had any problems with him personally but there were many, many more who did.
Last edited by Scott Rose on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:38 am

I certainly enjoyed Mr. Greenwood's comments on Spitfires. Unfortunately, he chose to devote much of his efforts toward steering conversation away from warbirds and toward politics, and in my opinion he earned his banning several times over.

Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:01 am

Although Bill was extremely supportive of my efforts to learn to fly and sent me many PMs on the subject, even those began to have a political content and I was soon forced to ask him to stop the PMs altogether. So, I guess I "banned" him long before Scott did. I'll miss his insights into flying but not the "lefty" negativity.

Scott...Good show, mate. :drink3:

Mudge

Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:02 am

Scott,
I'm a pretty small fish in this rather large ocean, I don't own a warbird nor do I have vast amounts of knowledge to share. I have been very interested in warbirds since I was a kid, and finding this site back in the summer of '07 was like striking gold. Threads like Garys' documentation of Ole' 924 during her conversion, and Sabermechs' threads on the F-86 and A-4 are priceless to me.
I just wanted to let you know that I fully support any decisions you make regarding the operation of this site. I'd be extremely disappointed if this site were to go away.
Thanks for all you do!!

Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:08 am

Its a shame to see Bill go, the forum will be less interesting without his view,s on Spitfire related talk.

I guess we will not find out what will become of TE308 and hopefully the future restoration of the aircraft :( Dam shame


Ohh well life goes on

Dave

Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:21 am

Those that are interested in knowing the status of the Spitfire can just email Bill directly, he is banned from the site, not the internet.

I fully support Scott's decision, and think according to what was stated, he presented the offenders with more than enough warning, I don't think I would be so tolerant if it was my site and you aren't playing by the rules. Its a warbird site, not a war or political site.

Bill.

Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:24 am

Scott, it's a tough call and you did what you felt needed to be done to keep this site from becoming a warzone. I 100% support your decision. I also think you have recruited some excellent mods. This is a forum of very passionate individuals. In some cases that passion can become misguided. So keeping this board in check is pretty impressive. If you're ever in Central Pennsylvania I'll buy you a beer!

Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:32 am

Those that are interested in knowing the status of the Spitfire can just email Bill directly, he is banned from the site, not the internet.


Would you have his e-mail then??

Dave

Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:34 am

‘shop’, women, politics and religion.

http://www.greatnorthernpublishing.co.u ... ges/13.pdf

Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:39 am

This is second time for me to take a note here and hope that you all did not mind about this. Some time ago I have made color profile of Spitfire and siplay here. Reaction was various but I get in conflict with Mr. Greenwood. After all we have realised that I did not understand specific slang used in USA and sense for humor and in other hand Mr. Greenwood did not understand what is the principles [and what editors ask from me] of digital art illustrations. He was very kind and contact me via PM and deeply and sincrely apologize.

Thank you for attention. I wish all the best to Bill Greenwood :razz: Hope he will remember me in good light [or spirit].

Cheers :)

Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:50 am

I double checked and don't, but as not to be perceived to be posting anything private,

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_6tmdr8

Bill
Topic locked