Learning To Fly, a story
Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:37 am
A friend got interested in learning to fly. I encouraged him and he started about a year ago. He's retired, a very young and active 58, with lot's of free time. He's a bright guy, an engineer. To save time an money he started in Light Sport aircraft. I advised him to get a good instructor and to FLY 2 OR 3 TIMES A WEEK. He says he likes his instructor, but it is now a year into it and he has 70 hours and still does not have his pilot license. He only flew once every couple of weeks, as well as one break of about 6 weeks, so progress was slow. He did the written all on his own, made a 90 and was surprised one is only required to make 70 to pass. He is such an engineer that he made his own spreadsheet to figure wind problems above and beyond an E6B. He wanted to know how many gs he was doing so took a home scale into the plane as a g meter, it was about 2 1/2.
He likes it just fine, likes the type plane ( I don't recall the brand), and he is almost ready for the flight test. Anyone else starting, go for it, and try to FLY 2 OR 3 TIMES A WEEK, for faster and cheaper results.
Another tip, if you have the choice of instructors, talk to a couple of their former students. Find out how many hours the CFI made them have before taking the flight test. I have not see this man fly, but more than 70 hours for a bright guy to get a Sport license seems like someone is using him to help with their loan payments. In the end I am sure he will be a pilot.
He likes it just fine, likes the type plane ( I don't recall the brand), and he is almost ready for the flight test. Anyone else starting, go for it, and try to FLY 2 OR 3 TIMES A WEEK, for faster and cheaper results.
Another tip, if you have the choice of instructors, talk to a couple of their former students. Find out how many hours the CFI made them have before taking the flight test. I have not see this man fly, but more than 70 hours for a bright guy to get a Sport license seems like someone is using him to help with their loan payments. In the end I am sure he will be a pilot.
Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:50 pm
Do you think the instructor is holding back or could it possibly be that the student is not ready to cut the umbilical cord? Sometimes it happens that way. The student feels more at ease knowing he has an instructor along even though he is actually doing just fine flying by himself. Just a curious thought....
CFI
Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:53 pm
Waco, I haven't seen him fly, nor met the instructor, so I am making sort of a half informed guess. In talking to the pilot he says the CFI says he is not quite ready, he hasn't even let the student take the pre test flight with another CFI that is often done. My feeing is that the CFI is milking the student, and that is only my feeling. The student says he did fine on the solos and is confident.
If the student is willing to keep shelling out money for dual lessons, what is the motivation of the CFI to sign him off for the test? It is noteworthy that the CFI wants him to do more dual, not just to fly solo to practice. This could be because he needs instruction, but also because that puts money in the CFIs pocket that solo does not. Of course any time renting the plane makes money for the FBO/school. Another motivation for the CFI is he wants the student to be really tops when he takes his flight test so it reflects well on the CFI.
I do know that instruction times have gone up hughely over what they use to be. I soloed in about 10 hoursin 1979. I was safe, if not expert. Last year I was talking to a Gold Seal CFI here who said his students took 20-25 hours just to solo. He had no guilt at all about draining that much payment out of them. Now many people will tell how complex learning is now. BS! Sure there is more complicated airspace, but not that much. We have better learning aids, DVDs, computers also. And a C152 is much the same now as it was then,
If the student is willing to keep shelling out money for dual lessons, what is the motivation of the CFI to sign him off for the test? It is noteworthy that the CFI wants him to do more dual, not just to fly solo to practice. This could be because he needs instruction, but also because that puts money in the CFIs pocket that solo does not. Of course any time renting the plane makes money for the FBO/school. Another motivation for the CFI is he wants the student to be really tops when he takes his flight test so it reflects well on the CFI.
I do know that instruction times have gone up hughely over what they use to be. I soloed in about 10 hoursin 1979. I was safe, if not expert. Last year I was talking to a Gold Seal CFI here who said his students took 20-25 hours just to solo. He had no guilt at all about draining that much payment out of them. Now many people will tell how complex learning is now. BS! Sure there is more complicated airspace, but not that much. We have better learning aids, DVDs, computers also. And a C152 is much the same now as it was then,
Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:24 pm
Bill, your friend should ask the flight school owner/chief pilot/ whoever is in charge to go fly with him for about 30 minutes, do some of the basic airwork and a few landings to evaluate "how he's progressing towards soloing".
The military and larger flight schools do this as a way of evaluating student progress. When I started I had the same problem with my instructor, I flew with another instructor one day (my regular instructor was out sick) and he was ready to sign me off for solo then and there. I sat them down together and my regular instructor couldn't articulate why I hadn't soloed to the other CFI.
Your friend needs a "second opinion", but should also really listen to what the 2nd CFI has to say, obiously if they both point out the same problems he's got a clear picture of what he needs to work on.
But... I agree, sounds like he should have soloed long ago.
The military and larger flight schools do this as a way of evaluating student progress. When I started I had the same problem with my instructor, I flew with another instructor one day (my regular instructor was out sick) and he was ready to sign me off for solo then and there. I sat them down together and my regular instructor couldn't articulate why I hadn't soloed to the other CFI.
Your friend needs a "second opinion", but should also really listen to what the 2nd CFI has to say, obiously if they both point out the same problems he's got a clear picture of what he needs to work on.
But... I agree, sounds like he should have soloed long ago.
Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:27 pm
oops, just reread the thread, he's soloed but hasn't taken the actual test flight. my bad. 
Back to my cave....
Back to my cave....
Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:31 pm
I agree! Go take one lesson with the other instructor and tell him to ask for an honest evaluation. It may not be what he wants to hear but it will give him a good idea on progress. I have a guy who works for me in the same boat...maybe worse. He has about 25 hrs duel and no solo! However, I have not flown with him nor seen him fly so there may be some underlying reasons there. I am not a good mark or example to go by as I soloed in 4.5 hrs of duel but then I grew up in a flying family and had the opportunity to fly many types of antiques prior to taking my first "official" lesson.
I have also had the experience of having an instructor who liked to yell, poke, prod, grab the airplane from me, etc. And this was after I already had 500+ hours!! This was when I was getting checked out in my Waco. I would come back to the airport feeling like an idiot and either jump into my Stinson or the Citabria and re-affirm to myself that yes, I could fly an airplane. I switched instructors and flew with another Waco pal for about 2 hours one day doing nothing but take offs/landings and got signed off for solo and high performance and never turned back. That was 10 years ago.
My point is that sometimes the instructor/student just don't click and that could be the issue as well. Good luck to your friend!
I have also had the experience of having an instructor who liked to yell, poke, prod, grab the airplane from me, etc. And this was after I already had 500+ hours!! This was when I was getting checked out in my Waco. I would come back to the airport feeling like an idiot and either jump into my Stinson or the Citabria and re-affirm to myself that yes, I could fly an airplane. I switched instructors and flew with another Waco pal for about 2 hours one day doing nothing but take offs/landings and got signed off for solo and high performance and never turned back. That was 10 years ago.
My point is that sometimes the instructor/student just don't click and that could be the issue as well. Good luck to your friend!
Re: Learning To Fly, a story
Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:46 pm
Bill Greenwood wrote:A friend got interested in learning to fly. I encouraged him and he started about a year ago. He's retired, a very young and active 58, with lot's of free time. He's a bright guy, an engineer. To save time an money he started in Light Sport aircraft. I advised him to get a good instructor and to FLY 2 OR 3 TIMES A WEEK. He says he likes his instructor, but it is now a year into it and he has 70 hours and still does not have his pilot license. He only flew once every couple of weeks, as well as one break of about 6 weeks, so progress was slow. He did the written all on his own, made a 90 and was surprised one is only required to make 70 to pass. He is such an engineer that he made his own spreadsheet to figure wind problems above and beyond an E6B. He wanted to know how many gs he was doing so took a home scale into the plane as a g meter, it was about 2 1/2.
He likes it just fine, likes the type plane ( I don't recall the brand), and he is almost ready for the flight test. Anyone else starting, go for it, and try to FLY 2 OR 3 TIMES A WEEK, for faster and cheaper results.
Another tip, if you have the choice of instructors, talk to a couple of their former students. Find out how many hours the CFI made them have before taking the flight test. I have not see this man fly, but more than 70 hours for a bright guy to get a Sport license seems like someone is using him to help with their loan payments. In the end I am sure he will be a pilot.
This situation is not common but it does occur in the instruction community. It can easily be addressed by an evaluation flight with an independent instructor.
We actually had a planned procedure for this in one of the 141 operations where I used to instruct. If a student encountered any issues on the learning curve that became sustained, an evaluation flight was always done using another totally out of the loop instructor.
I can't remember a single case where doing this didn't solve any issues either on the instructor or the student side of the equation.