Warbird Information Exchange

Go for a ride, live life, enjoy. It WILL end sometime. You have a much better chance of getting hurt/killed on a highway. BFD, enjoy the ride, literally.

Rich

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Rich Kolasa
www.crystalgraphix.com

That's a pretty poor attitude to a pretty serious topic. If that's how you feel though there's a couple guys I could set you up with out here. Oops, wait one already killed himself and his pax flathatting
I was asked a pretty serious question..........
I met with a customer this week who is a warbird nut also. The difference between me and them is that he and his friends have them. I have been offered a ride in their AT-6. As excited as I am I have four children and NEED to be responsible. I am not a pilot, is there anything that I should ask or look for before I go with them? These guys have the bucks and they are probably fine. Sorry if I sound like a puss, Any advice would be great.

I think that this question is worthy of a better response

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Don't touch my junk!!

Jack,
I know exactly what you are talking about, I have had several opportunities to go up in our fixed and rotor warbirds in the past couple of months and have turned them down. I have a 18 month old grandson and there is a chance we may end up raising him...........he needs me more than I need a ride and the thrill of being around him makes any ride seem insignificant at best......you have to have priorities I guess.......good call Jack!!!!!
Gary

I'm not saying don't go but rather don't go blindly. Know who you're flying with and ask around has not everyone is "Sky King". That goes for anything not just warbirds.

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Don't touch my junk!!

When I first started doing A2A photography I would jump in any aircraft with anyone. I just wanted to go flying and shoot aircraft. The first few years I flew with experienced Harvard pilots who knew their thing and made it look so easy. Then came a shoot with two guys who wanted to have some photos on their wall of their aircraft. I had been cautioned many times about being careful who you fly with and make sure they have experience and a good reputation as a safe disciplined pilot. These guys were IFR rated and I had flown with them on a few trips. Well, they taught me flying formation is not easy and scared the crap out of me a few times before the day was over. We all survived the day but I walked away a little wiser and smarter

I have learned to ask questions, listen to advice and the most important part, decline a ride. I have learned how to wear a parachute properly and how to exit an aircraft if need be. During a shoot I try to be as ready as I can to depart the aircraft if I have a parachute. If there is structural damage or a fire I feel the pilot may not jump if I’m still in the back seat and I don’t want to be responsible for his death because I was not ready to evacuate the aircraft.

I remember a few years back making plans to do an A2A shoot with a pilot at an airshow. He had a beautiful machine that I really wanted to shoot so we made plans for the following week to do the shoot. After his performance in the Saturday show I looked at my wife and said I really don’t want to fly with this person next week as his flying and performance in the show scared the hell out of me and I could see he was inexperienced and unprofessional. Well, the very next day he died in the aircraft during his performance. He was a new guy on the block and after talking to several pilots who had come in contact with him they all predicted he was going to kill himself. It was very sobering.

Go for the ride if you get a chance but do your best to make sure the aircraft is sound and the pilot is safe and has a good reputation.

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The air resounds from the Rolls-Royce roar!
To an enemy the warning is dire: here only eagles soar,
and the last thing he'll see is a mirrored Spitfire!

No warbird flight is risk free,it is not an airline. Don't ride if you are not sure you want to go.

Most warbird pilots can fly the plane well enough. Sometimes errors in judgment are made.
If someone is doing rides you can, and should watch a few before you. Watch the guy taxi, is it slow, smooth and careful or fast and jerky with a lot of power and riding the brakes. Watch him takeoff and when they come back to land. And you can ask around about how long he has been flying and his reputation. Just make sure to ask more than just his friends, or the group that is making the money.
Also see if there are shoulder harness and a parachute for the passenger and a decent briefing in emergencies, like how to get the canopy off and exit if you need to get out. Beware if they just throw you in quick with only a seat belt and no idea of what to do.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

I am excited about the opportunity to fly with these guys, but the reality is life is risky.
I love my job. Unfortunately over the years I have seen too many preventable injuries and yes deaths. Very recently an employee of our company was fatally injured at work. A 1,375,000 lb mining truck, capable of carrying 400 tonnes of material shifted crushing him and injuring another person. I was not there and I did not know him. I do however know our company, and the quality of the people in it, I am certain he understood his job and so did the people around him. Still these things happen. All we can do is seek information from people in the know and apply this information to make the best decision possible.
When this opportunity presented itself I contacted a close friend, a 747 pilot, and then Jack. Their advice was reassuringly similar. Now after reading all of yours I feel much more prepared!
Thanks Guys!
Thanks again Jack!!!

When I went flying with the Cascade Warbirds guys a few weeks ago I felt very comfortable. I've seen these guys fly for years, they brief and de-brief all their flights and if something doesn't feel comfortable it's not done. Watching Dave go through his lengthy checklist both days was great. I understand anything can happen at anytime and I accept that to do something I love.

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-Al Sauer
http://www.flickr.com/photos/spookythecat

My very first Warbird ride was with Victor Bilbo in his Porchagies A-T6 I remeber that every thing was in Spanish on the control pannel ! any way He was very detail in Preflight with me on every thing that might go wrong in flight and what I needed to know as a passanger. It really made me feel very much at ease. looking back on that I am thankful that he did. On Chuckie B-17 Crew same can be siad VERY! VERY ! detail Pre check list on How the Passanger's are to ride and where to sit on landing and take off. Fast forward a few years I was supose to be on the ILL fated flight of the CAF PBY at the Harlington Air show. Fate was on my side that day as My Taxi Cab was last in picking me up for the Hotel . when I foundout what had happen and how I litterly got sick .
Thanks Jack for the reminder .

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Always Keep Em Flying !

Glen

Lookie Capt Jim! Wham! Wham! ...............................Termights

I'll add my voice to the chorus of those who say not all warbird pilots are created the same. They definitely span the entire range of skills from phenomenal to dangerous.

In my line of business, the USAF fighter community has very stringent initial and recurrency training with high standards. Even WITH high standards of training and consistent currency checks, there is still a noticeable variation among the pilots I fly with. There are definitely guys I prefer to fly with and others that I prefer NOT to fly with. There are a handful that belong nowhere near an airplane and I try my best to avoid ever being involved with them. And this is all, again, with common training, proficiency, standards, etc.

Maybe it's that growing up, I figured that the guys who had their butt in a warbird must have impressive stick and rudder skills -- I looked up to them.

But, I was very surprised once I started interacting with warbird pilots about the SIGNIFICANT variances in training, skill, and proficiency among warbid pilots.

So, I agree that people need to be careful whom they choose to fly with. Obviously the FAA has their "standard" by which someone is or is not capable of flying a particular aircraft. But, again, with the wide differences in backgrounds and attitudes about safety, you're just never sure what the pilot of any particular airplane might be like.

When I was younger I would jump in any plane and go anywhere. There was only twice I regretted getting in an airplane with a person I had never flown with before.
The first was when a pilot in our club asked me to do some pattern work with him in his Bonanza. After his first landing I sure wished there were dual controls instead of a throwover yoke.
He had been a Waco glider pilot in WW2.

The second time was a pleasure flight with three other pilots in a C172XP. To make a long story short, when we were landing at night in strong Santa Ana winds, the guy flying blew his landing and bounced. He applied full power and announced he was going around. With visions in my mind of us drifting over into the airplanes parked on the ramp and going up in a fireball, I unbuckled my seatbelt and reached over from the backseat and pulled the mixture control to cut-off. The pilot managed to keep it on the runway and had us stopped using not even half the runway. I truly feel that an attempted go-around in an overloaded plane in strong gusting windy conditions at night would have been fatal. The two guys up front were pissed at me while my buddy sitting next to me in the back seat thanked me for doing what I did.

I do believe that as I have gotten older that my aversion to risk has grown. I have turned down warbird rides that I was offered. I have felt absolutely comfortable with every warbird flight I've accepted and/or paid for. And I agree that the preflight/postflight briefing is very important.

Les

Gezz Jack more things to be scared of

Stick to posting your pics their great

If you're smart and use common sense then you won't have to be scared

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Don't touch my junk!!

Gezz Jack more things to be scared of ???????

Are you serious?

I agree the pictures are great, but seriously. What the h*ll are you thinking. Keep it coming Jack!!!

All the "Great/good/not-so-good" experiences here remind me of something
I was told a long time ago. Seems to me to be fairly relevant here.
The quote goes:
"What do you call a person who graduates at the top of his class in med. school?"
Answer: "Doctor"
"What do you call a person who graduates last in the same class?"
Answer: "Doctor"

It's all in the degree of proficiency ain't it?

(Hope that's not too subtle. )

Mudge the philosopher

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Land of the free because of the brave