Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:52 pm
Warbird Kid wrote:Yeah but when a flyable museum becomes non flyable it is just more warbirds being put down.
Now the world has lost another flyable Tigercat, Wildcat, Corsair and so forth
I try think of it in a more positive light. Those birds are in a private collection, inside a very nice hangar. They're not at the bottom of the sea, or sitting in a jungle, or rotting on a ramp until the scrapman comes calling. They were flyers, there's a chance they'll fly again.
At least now you can get a look at 'em.
Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:05 am
just so happens that i stopped in kalamazoo this past june. i used to live slightly to the north in grand rapids so i had been to the "old" air zoo many times back in the flying days. frankly i was unimpressed, starting with the admission price which was something like $60 for myself, the mrs and a 4 & 5 yr old. the new building is dark inside, the p-39 and p-47 are located in corners making it impossible to get a close look. the f-8 crusader is apparantly painted with a coarse roller as it has more texture than my living room walls and the black blackbird in a dark hangar made me wish for a flashlight! 
to my taste the millions spent on this new building would have been better spent on a small addition to the old building and renewing the insurance policy to keep some of these aircraft flying. i attended several airshows over the years where all 4 cats made the trip and flew in the show, those memories are far more impressive than anything i saw on our most recent visit. the old building is still in use although it seems to have lost its character as well (of course we went there second so i already had a bad taste by then). we ran out of time to make it over to the restoration hangar so i have no idea what was happening there.
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to my taste the millions spent on this new building would have been better spent on a small addition to the old building and renewing the insurance policy to keep some of these aircraft flying. i attended several airshows over the years where all 4 cats made the trip and flew in the show, those memories are far more impressive than anything i saw on our most recent visit. the old building is still in use although it seems to have lost its character as well (of course we went there second so i already had a bad taste by then). we ran out of time to make it over to the restoration hangar so i have no idea what was happening there.
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Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:10 am
looking at the b-25, i just realized that the top turret is missing, i know it used to carry a somewhat crude replica but appears to just be an empty hole now? i tried to stitch the 5 pictures above together into one panoramic view but it turned out crappy. the are taken continously left to right however.
Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:02 am
The top turret was there when our model club had it's annual show in the museum last month. Looking at your pic, I think it's just blocked by the wing of the Wright Flyer replica hanging in the foreground.
SN
SN
Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:53 am
First Grumman a/c I saw flying were the Zoos (plus their P47 was the first for that type also) - I still thank them for that taste early in my Warbird obsession...
I finally visited the Zoo just after they opened the new facility...sure looks different in these pictures posted in this thread. I would quibble about the lighting of the a/c as well, but it would be a quibble, not a major gripe.
The Ascender was still in restoration during my visit, so I have not seen the completed project first-hand.
I finally visited the Zoo just after they opened the new facility...sure looks different in these pictures posted in this thread. I would quibble about the lighting of the a/c as well, but it would be a quibble, not a major gripe.
The Ascender was still in restoration during my visit, so I have not seen the completed project first-hand.
Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:06 am
The B-25 is most definitely NOT missing it's top turret. I worked there on Saturday.
Regarding your comments re the other aircraft:
P-47 and P-39...how much closer do you want to get? You can walk completely around the P-39, and the only part of the P-47 you can't get to is the tail. And, had you asked a docent, you probably could have gotten inside the barrier. I've certainly done that for other people...it's a fairly common practice.
F-8...has been painted that way for many years, since it was stored outside at one point. I'll admit, it's not the greatest job in the world, but I've certainly seen worse.
The Blackbird is, well...black. I've seen the one at the Hazy center, and the one in Duxford, and in my opinion they're not appreciably better illuminated than ours is.
Just out of curiosity...did you fill out the visitor survey to make your views known to management...or did you just save your griping for this thread?
John
Regarding your comments re the other aircraft:
P-47 and P-39...how much closer do you want to get? You can walk completely around the P-39, and the only part of the P-47 you can't get to is the tail. And, had you asked a docent, you probably could have gotten inside the barrier. I've certainly done that for other people...it's a fairly common practice.
F-8...has been painted that way for many years, since it was stored outside at one point. I'll admit, it's not the greatest job in the world, but I've certainly seen worse.
The Blackbird is, well...black. I've seen the one at the Hazy center, and the one in Duxford, and in my opinion they're not appreciably better illuminated than ours is.
Just out of curiosity...did you fill out the visitor survey to make your views known to management...or did you just save your griping for this thread?
John
Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:40 am
Its sad to see the air zoo aircraft goundbound. 
The Air zoo and National Warplane Museum remind me all too much the similarity of things going down hill. Both museums seemed to work somewhat together doing air shows. I remember the air zoo aircraft at the Elmira shows. Always was neat to see the grumman flight!
Both museums seemed to shut down at the same time. So sad.
The warbird movement really hasnt been the same without the air zoo and NWM.
The Air zoo and National Warplane Museum remind me all too much the similarity of things going down hill. Both museums seemed to work somewhat together doing air shows. I remember the air zoo aircraft at the Elmira shows. Always was neat to see the grumman flight!
Both museums seemed to shut down at the same time. So sad.
The warbird movement really hasnt been the same without the air zoo and NWM.
Last edited by Nathan on Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:40 am
*Looking for EMERGENCY EXIT*
Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:03 am
Guys they are preserved in an air museum, they are not in a bone yard.
Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:00 pm
Steve Nelson: you're right the wing of the flyer is blocking the top of the b-25, i should have noticed that (what can i say it was 12: something am)
John Ceglarek: there were 2 employee (volunteers?) working the rides + 1 at the simulators. they looked busy and i didn't ask for permission to cross the sandbag barrier. obviously you take offense to my comments to whcih all i can say is this: i've been to the Air Zoo as it was and as it is now, i preferred it as it was.
actually to be honest, i feel the same about the new SAC museum near omaha. the people there are doing outstanding work on the aircraft, work which would have been impossible and probably pointless when most of the aircraft were outside, however the new building simply doesn't appeal to me the way the old setup at Offut did. hence i've been to the new location once instead of what used to be a yearly visit.
the museum i miss the most is the Planes of Fame East location at flying cloud airport in eden prairie, mn. the collection there was outstanding with many of the aircraft flying during the annual Memorial Day display. i suspect that economics caused its closure which was sad given the large population base nearby in Minneapolis. somewhere i have pictures taken during the Memorial Day flying, i'll try to find and post sometime.
(what can i say it was 12: something am)
John Ceglarek: there were 2 employee (volunteers?) working the rides + 1 at the simulators. they looked busy and i didn't ask for permission to cross the sandbag barrier. obviously you take offense to my comments to whcih all i can say is this: i've been to the Air Zoo as it was and as it is now, i preferred it as it was.
actually to be honest, i feel the same about the new SAC museum near omaha. the people there are doing outstanding work on the aircraft, work which would have been impossible and probably pointless when most of the aircraft were outside, however the new building simply doesn't appeal to me the way the old setup at Offut did. hence i've been to the new location once instead of what used to be a yearly visit.
the museum i miss the most is the Planes of Fame East location at flying cloud airport in eden prairie, mn. the collection there was outstanding with many of the aircraft flying during the annual Memorial Day display. i suspect that economics caused its closure which was sad given the large population base nearby in Minneapolis. somewhere i have pictures taken during the Memorial Day flying, i'll try to find and post sometime.