FAA and The Reno Crash

sdennison · **Posted:** Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:04 pm

Thanks for all the input. Sort of seems like "old school, run what you brung" racing. I'm going to have to check it out one day.

I too, hope all goes well and a safe week is had by all.

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:19 am

kpu wrote:

You able to make the Party this year or is Uncle Suger keeping you busy?

Gonna try to make it Saturday. I have to fly on Sunday in Vegas.

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:32 am

SDension, as for driving at Indy, I can't believe many, if any, top F1 drivers could not easily adapt there. The lap record is still held by Ari Lyendyke sp? at over 231 mph, quite a bit faster than they run now. When the top guys from F1 have come over, haven't they done well and won some? I think it is a track that rewards car more than driver, but still the F1 guys are as good or better the locals.

sdennison · **Posted:** Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:51 am

Bill, you are correct. Jimmy Clark and Lotus came over in the 60's with the rear engine car and smoked the good ol' American boys. It was more an attitude by USAC at the time rather than mastery of the skill set issue.

It just seems to me that the race car drivers have a huge infrastructure to learn from and most make their way to the top via short tracks and long experience in competition. Jack Rousch and many NASCAR teams have development programs to hand coddle their up and coming drivers. Completely different situation than Reno, but when you only hold one event a year, what else can you do?

Any sport such as this is going to be dangerous. I remember being at Indy in 73 where we lost a couple drivers and even a crewmember so it is not just Reno that can have a bad year.

Don't get me wrong, I am not crtitcizing Reno, I was just curious as to how pilots earn the right to compete.

engguy · **Joined:** Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:45 am **Posts:** 442

People die in all kinds of sports. Like a basket ball player colapsing and dying for no apparent reason. Same with foot ball etc.

F3A-1 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:00 pm

Yes, I had the pleasure of racing a couple of times. It really was not dangerous. I had enough time doing formation flying that it was only really a formation flight that (one at a time) passed me! In fact Steve Wittman passed me twice in one race! Remember there are usually only a couple of rookies out on the course at one time and they are not in front.

Even in the seventies we had to qualify the pilot on the course and in solo flight. The plane also went through a tech inspection.

Although I have never been to Reno I believe that they are doing a great job with keeping the events as safe as possible.

Pirate Lex
http://www.BrewsterCorsair.com[quote][/quote]

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

I hate to say it, but I think the Reno Air Races will cease to exist as we know them within the next 10 to 15 years. There are a multitude of reasons why, not the least of which is the public's flawed perception of the races.

P51Mstg · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:36 am **Posts:** 1202

I really see no reason for the Air Races themselves to go away. I can say that they are probably going to be going away at Stead Airport. If you compare the building and development around the area when I first went there 15 years ago to today, things have changed.

There are houses, businesess, schools, etc. The only thing helping the Races is the economy and I'd say the growth of subdivisions is slowed.

You all need to keep in mind that it would only take one freak accident of an Unlimited into a housing complex (even without fatalities) to change things. Looking back at the F-82 and USAFM, keep in mind the FAA has a LOT of adminstrative power that can function virutally unchecked (Bob Hoover's pilot's license for one). They could rid of area of airracing in a short emergency ruling ("no racing within 5 miles of an occupied dwelling") Which wouldn't stop racing, but might force it to move to the absolute middle of nowhere; effectively killing it.

Always keep in mind that THESE ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS.

Mark H

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:55 am

engguy wrote:

People die in all kinds of sports. Like a basket ball player colapsing and dying for no apparent reason. Same with foot ball etc.

Sure. The problems are twofold. No one expects to die at the local ball game, even though they do sometimes (public & personal perception of 'no risk') while flying is 'dangerous' to the general public's perception.

Secondly, aviation is clearly more dangerous than the ballgames. I'd like to have stats to prove otherwise, or even show how safe aviation actually is (and I asked in the General Discussion forum) but all I got was stats showing how dangerous it is. Great.

We have both perception and statistical issues to deal with. I'm waiting for anyone to offer answers.

EDowning · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:39 pm

JDK wrote:

Quote:

Secondly, aviation is clearly more dangerous than the ballgames

You obviously have never see me play basketball. :shock:

Hellcat · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:34 pm

JDK wrote:

aviation is clearly more dangerous than the ballgames. I'd like to have stats to prove otherwise.

Here's a personal stat for you ... My father flew in the US Navy and privately for over 60 years. All he suffered was a broken thumb cranking up the landing gear on an F4F. I played professional hockey for 7 years and I have broken bones, stainless steel pins and scars from head to toe, and you should see the other guys .. haha .... And "NO" no brain damage, contrary to what some of you bozo's out there may think .... A meltdown is a good thing sometimes. It keeps some of you guys out there sharp & on your toes ... haha

"Perception" is a state of mind, "Statistics" are a matter of fact. If you want to perceive aviation as dangerous then there will never be enough statistics to reduce that perception. Statistically aviation is far safer than sports. Death from aviation is obviously more than from sports, but injury from sports is far more than from aviation. Your chances of something bad happening to you are far less in aviation than sports.

I would respectfully tend to disagree with your above statement.

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:28 pm

Ah, I'd agree that playing with Ed could be more dangerous to your health, but like Hellcat's stats, I don't think they are much use in the big pic...

Hellcat wrote:

I would respectfully tend to disagree with your above statement.

Great - find me the stats! I'm first in the queue to hear that aviation is safe - all my non aviation friends 'know' aviation is dangerous; help me show them otherwise.

By the way, I'm talking deaths, not injury; 1. because that's what makes the front pages and 2; they're more accurate a count. Note that when someone dies on the sports field the newspaper tone is of shock because 'that shouldn't happen'. When someone dies in an aircraft we get the 'if God had meant us to fly...' approach.

What are YOU going to do about public perception on this one?

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:32 pm

All ok today at the races, no accidents that I know of. A nice vfr day , got windy in the afternoon.

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3331

Hellcat wrote:

JDK wrote:

aviation is clearly more dangerous than the ballgames. I'd like to have stats to prove otherwise.

Here's a personal stat for you ... My father flew in the US Navy and privately for over 60 years. All he suffered was a broken thumb cranking up the landing gear on an F4F. I played professional hockey for 7 years and I have broken bones, stainless steel pins and scars from head to toe, and you should see the other guys .. haha .....

Statistics?

I wonder how many funerals of hockey players killed during the game you went to during those 7 years, versus how many aviation buddies killed in flying accidents your father helped bury over the years?

Aviation IS dangerous - fact. I base this on the numbers of people I've known (some close friends) killed over the years I've been involved in aviation, sadly, far more than in any other occupation I can think of.

mustanglover · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:10 pm

The fact is that aviation is 3D

Statistics only work for those who are presenting them

Aviation is far more dangerous than cars in a 2D world

this outa raise a few amature science statements from the peanut gallery

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FAA and The Reno Crash

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