Me210 in Japan

Mgawa · **Posted:** Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:18 am

Greetings all,

I have get in last time a number of very interesting images and one of them present Me210 in Japan markings. First impression is that it look more like Me410 but anyway I would like to hear few words if you are informed about.

Cheers

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:05 pm

i've never heard anything about that!! please post a pic!! i'm very interested!!! i know the japanese imported or bought the license rights to build the me 163 komet, a few bf-109', s the dornier flying boat, amongst others but have not heard or seen anything on the me 210 / 410

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:07 pm

mgawa i will consult rene francillion's book, that is the bible of all operational japanese aircraft & get back to you.......

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2628

Taken from Messerschmitt Bf 110/Me 210/Me 410 by Heinz Mankau & Peter Petrick.

Me 210 A-2,

There was no manual for the Me 210 A-2 series mentioned in some publications, nor have the authors ever found a reference to the type in any manual or other document.

The airplane Nowarra called the Me 210 A-2 (factory werk Number 2350 GE+KV), which was sold to Japan, was in fact the Me 210 V22, tested in Oct. 1942 at Rechlin using DB 605 engines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Me_210_jap.jpg

Regards,
Mike

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:47 pm

mgawa, after consulting ren'e francillon's book "japanese aircraft of the pacific war" i can only conclude that you are mistaking the german me 210 / 410 for the heavy prototype fighter of the rikugun ki -93 built by tachikawa. the lines of this single japanese prototype are very simular, other than the ki -93 had twin 6 bladed propellors. it was designed as a high altitude bomber destroyer with 1 57mm cannon & 2 20mm cannon. in the anti- shipping role it was envisioned to carry a 75mm cannon & 2 551 pound general purpose bombs. it carried 1 12.7 hand held machine gun for defense, was heavily armoured & all fuel tanks were self sealing & the prototype had an automatic fire extinguisher system. the 1st prototype was built but not flown until april 1945. a 2nd prototype was built, but never made aireborne before the end of the war. the lines are strikingly simular to the luftwaffe types, which proved huge failures. max speed of the ki-93 was 388 mph at 27 thousand plus feet. hope this helps you!!

Mgawa · **Posted:** Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:15 pm

To regret I have no scanner but I will definitely do something as well I have received a number of the interesting images related to the US aircraft and airman.

Tom- this plane do excist in the Japanese history. here you are image on Wikipedia:

Also I have book all in Japanese, edited by Toshihiko Nozawa, and this plane is also mentined there. One sample only.

Thank you all for the time and attention

famvburg · **Joined:** Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:41 am **Posts:** 540

Sure looks like a 210/410 to me.

Mgawa wrote:

To regret I have no scanner but I will definitely do something as well I have received a number of the interesting images related to the US aircraft and airman.

Tom- this plane do excist in the Japanese history. here you are image on Wikipedia:

Also I have book all in Japanese, edited by Toshihiko Nozawa, and this plane is also mentined there. One sample only.

Thank you all for the time and attention

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 am

wow!!!!

it is an me 210 or 410!!! as the tail on the japanese ki 93 was more squared off. that is 1 rare pic & a real historic oversight!!!

Mgawa · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:12 am

Problem that I can not make difference among the versions. I have only kagero book and drawings are almost the same, except for the engines. And fuselage should be of different lenght. I know for two or three images of this plane in japan, i should have to dig it in my collection...

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2628

I believe my answer above should explain which aircraft was sent to Japan, Me 210 V22 which had the extended fuselage, wing slats and DB 605 engines. The V22 was testing these mods for production then sold to Japan.

"The Me 210 A-1 with long fuselage was created exclusively in Germany ( Messerschmitt Augsburg) through modification of existing short-frame Me 210 stock or airframes in advanced stages of production during the time period from July 1942 through March 1943. As a percentage of availible Me 210 A-1's with short fuselage was also immediately converted into Me 410's and further numbers were already destroyed, the total production of the long-frame Me 210 A-1 was significantly smaller than that of the short framed version. Approximately 180 Me 210 A-1 (long) were produced from the 354 Me 210's finished with the short fuselage."

Regards,
Mike

Mgawa · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:52 am

Mike-all you have state is very valuable and thank you for that. Bitter problem is that fuselage doe not match any idea about the lenght and it is definitely original short. Note that it also have rounded panel on the top of the fuselage, just behind the cockpit, and this is typical charasteristic for the A series of Me210. C model did have longer fuselage.

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2628

I can't be much clearer.

These measurements are from the tip of the prop spinner to the trailing edge of the rudder.

Me 210 A-1 (short) DB 601, Length 11.183 m
Me 210 A-1 (long) DB 601, Length 12.15 m
Me 210 V22 (Japan) DB 605, Length 12.56 m

The V17 (DB 601) was used to test the long fuselage in Oct. 1941, later it was upgraded to use DB 605 engines.
If they were already testing a long fuselage in Oct. 1941 because of handling problems, what would be the point in making the V22 a short fuselage with DB 605's?

Regards,
Mike

Mgawa · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:35 am

All right- you have knock me down. All date is more then desired and now I have personal problem to understand why is the panel behind cockpit identical to the Me210? All what you stated mean that this plane is called Me210 but this is identical shape as Me410?

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2628

Think of the plane as a hybrid. Part 210, part 410. It's not a 210 A, B or C. It's a 210 V22.

It started life as a 210 and was modified to fix the handling problems of the short-fuselage 210. Some of these mods included the longer fuselage and DB 605 engines. It wasn't built to represent a 410, just some of the mods would eventually become 410 production standard.

Another example would be the pic below.

It looks like a TA-152, has the same dimensions, engine, etc. of a TA-152, but it's not a TA-152. It's actaully the FW-190 V30/U1.

Regards,
Mike

Mgawa · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:19 pm

Huuuh... al right. Definitely hard topic at all. Some factory work image could be good. BTW- I have better image of the FW-190 V30/U1 if you have any interest.

Thnk you all again

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