This is the place where the majority of the warbird (aircraft that have survived military service) discussions will take place. Specialized forums may be added in the new future
Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:44 pm
Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:44 pm
Wow,
that's just strange. It reminds me of when I used to fly gliders with the Royal Canadian Air Cadets, but that doesn't look like much of a glider.
Cheers,
David
Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:13 am
I never hear that this plane was used in that role!
Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:12 am
Where's the pics of the landing?
Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:34 am
i don't see the point of the testing........ but with the price of av gas today maybe it now has merit!!!
Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:38 am
Concept hardly new. P-51B was flown as a glider , towed behind a P-61 during war. IIRC it was flown from the same local, under the auspices of NACA Ames. Point of the excercise was to correlate model windtunnel data to that of full size. Pilot on all flights was Jim Nissen, later the manager of San Jose Municial Airport (now SJ International) and became well known on the West Coast for his Curtiss Jenny restoration.
Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:17 am
The point of the testing was part of one of the X-Prize competitors. They were studying the feasibility of towing a jet aircraft behind a large transport and then in-effect "air launching" the craft, eliminating the first stage of flight (the initial boost stage). The idea (if explored further) was to use a 747 to tow a spaceplane to 40,000 feet, release it, the spaceplane would then light its motors and proceed into orbit. It's not a new concept either, but its the first time that it was actually tested with high performance aircraft like the Delta Dagger. The aircraft was of the same general size and weight as the proposed X-Prize competitor, so it was probably as close of a test for the "real deal" as has been attempted.
Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:17 am
They had the same concept of "parasitic" fighters for fuel economy in the 1950s- at one point had an a/c (B-29 I think) which had the wing tips modified so a similarly modified fighter could fly alongside & hook in, and glide along using the bomber's power. The concept was found to be hard to align: at the end(IIRC) they had a successful hook up, followed by oscillation of the fighter, which then did an uncontrolled hinged barrel roll, took the wing off the B-29, and killed both crews. I may be wrong, but I seem to recall Bud Anderson was involved in the testing of this system. Have to go reread some books, and see if I am right...
Robbie
Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:32 pm
Indeed, Bud was involved in the parasite testing.
Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:05 pm
He's using the engine on take off, you can see the heat distortion.
Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:40 pm
engguy wrote:He's using the engine on take off, you can see the heat distortion.
Probably because he needs electrical and hydraulic power. No hydraulics, no flight controls.
Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:40 pm
engguy wrote:He's using the engine on take off, you can see the heat distortion.
In the picture, the exhaust stream appears more to be swept away with the slipstream rather than pointed down along the aircraft axis as is often seen with an engine at power. Watching the youtube video, the F-106 performance isn't stunning, either.
My guess - the thing is it at idle for a possible cable snap and the subsequent release. Not to mention overcoming windmilling drag (assuming the engine wasn't removed) and, although I'm not up on Dart systems, if the flight controls are hydraulic, there'd probably need to be a turning engine to power the flight controls as well.
Ken
Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:26 pm
The parasite fighter was F-84s on a B-36 wing tip. Idea scrapped after the fatal accident.
Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:16 am
Ober, there were two projects using F-84's connected to the tip of an aircraft. The Tip-Tow project was using EF-84Bs on the EB-29A wingtip as part of larger experiments that included the XF-85 Goblin to test various FICON (FIghter CONveyor) concepts. During the first flight to test the "automatic" mode of connection where the pilot could release control of the aircraft, the left Tip Tow aircraft (Bud flew the right) docked automatically, and then immediately flipped over the wingtip and both the EB-29A and the EF-84B crashed. The TOM-TOM project, the RB-36F based concurrent effort was a failure as well when one of the RF-84Fs was torn loose due to the wingtip vorticies, however all 3 aircraft landed safely. The GRB-36H, which was the only aircraft to operationally employ the FICON concept, married an RB-36H Featherweight III-configured aircraft with modified bomb bay doors and a trapeze to accept the RF-84K which was a specially built aircraft designed to be carried by the GRB-36H and was modified to mate with the trapeze and had a tail that was canted down to fit inside the modified bomb bay. The aircraft could be refueled inflight and the typical mission was for the two planes to take off separately & "dock" inflight. The B-36 would then carry the FICON to its release point, refueling the aircraft on the way and allowing the pilot to get out and stretch. The aircraft would then be released, fly its mission, and then return and re-dock to the B-36 before being flown back to "friendly" skies when it would be released yet again to land back at its base.
Some resources on the FICON project -
http://www.edwards.af.mil/moments/docs_ ... 04-27.html
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsh ... sp?id=2550
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FICON_project
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