TEXAS RAIDERS- First Flight in Seven Years- Oct. 14, 2009

[SPANNERmkV]

Aw shucks 2nd Air Force...
It's just a service we are happy to provide...That is...allowing folks to come in from out of town on their own nickle and bust buns for a couple of days doing EXCELLENT work on projects that will get us flying sooner!

AND it never would have happened without WIX!!!

Scott was working on the life-raft area of the turtleback and I was under the same wing with my head up an access hole (I think that was what it was ) cleaning round engine spew out of the wing innards, about four feet away from Scott ...
When I heard this CLANG and then the word, "swear!"
Just the word "swear!"
If it had been my Dad or myself or any of my brothers it would have been Paint the air BLUE time with, "frick to frack the frickin frackin mother of mayberry gosh darned whatever!"

I know because I bumped my head laughing!

Thanks Scott and Ellen and let's do it again as soon as you wanna!

SPANNER

[RickH]

Spanner, that's not spew, it's corrsion control !

Maybe Scott isn't allowed to use advanced aviation words ?

[retroaviation]

Maybe Scott isn't allowed to use advanced aviation words ?

Oh, he uses those words...trust me! Hmmm, but maybe it's only when he's working with me on the B-24. So is it me, or the B-24 that gave him those fits?

Gary

[Second Air Force]

RickH,

You can ask Ellen, Gary, or numerous drones at my "real job" about my cursing qualifications--I've actually invented cuss words over the years. Seriously, since I was the new guy I tried not to be the a-hole that I usually am (for the first day). They will soon know the real me, though. Don didn't think about throwing me out of the hangar when he met me, so I guess I'm mellowing with age.

Here is why I wanted to use my favorite verbal condemnation terminology:


Scott

Last edited by Second Air Force on Tue May 20, 2008 12:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[Flying Pencil]

For you turret guys... I will take better pictures later, but this is what I have to offer up. We put the side stanchions on the pedestal and placed the top mechanisim in our handy assembly frame. The sides caused quite a debate, because all of the pictures and manuals we were finding showed the round pipe stanchions. We even visited LSFM and Thunderbird has the pipe style holder uppers. THEN finally I saw a Picture in B17s IN COMBAT that showed our style of turret being set in a shiny new B17G. Good enough for me!
Se we feel confident that we have the right stuff for a G-model top turret.

Well, I have a *complete* set of manuals for several different types of turrets for several different aircraft, including Lancasters.

Its not like I keep it a secret.

[SPANNERmkV]

Joe,

We need some of the details about the closing panels for the sides of our top turret and I am sure there are other details T-squared could use.

Dig out the appropriate manual and PM me about getting together.
If West Houston Airport is easier maybe we can connect up there, OR come see the bomber on Saturdays.

SPANNER

[Second Air Force]

Maybe Scott isn't allowed to use advanced aviation words ?

Oh, he uses those words...trust me! Hmmm, but maybe it's only when he's working with me on the B-24. So is it me, or the B-24 that gave him those fits?

Gary

Ummm....... it was mostly you, Gary---remember how uncomfortable we made poor Ballard that one weekend In all honesty, if it weren't for you we wouldn't be involved in the warbird movement at all.

Thanks, buddy.
Scott

[Flying Pencil]

So... with a tip o' the hat to Howie Mandel... Turret, or No Turret? What a quandary! Dang, I was hoping that I'd end up on one side of the fence or the other, but that apparently isn't going to happen. Maybe someone else can come up with the definitive answer? Maybe not.

In either case -- turret or not -- please support the few remaining flyable B-17s! Help keep them operational so that future generations can see and appreciate them the way we do.

Cheers!

k5dh is right, a turret is more of headache in the air then left on the ground.

However I would have the turret ready to go in at any time if the need calls for it, with a facsimile turret (just top) when the true one is on the ground.

The benefit of leaving the turret on the ground is education:
Those turrets had fully calculating ballistic trajectory computers that projected a PIPPER on the sight the gunner used to aim with.
Yes, forerunner of the moving sights into todays jet fighters.

It is little known among the warbird community, imagine the general population.

I can foresee having the turret on a trailer (as some do) as a display at the airshows for people to see, and for a fee see up close.

Just my $0.02

[Flying Pencil]

Joe,

We need some of the details about the closing panels for the sides of our top turret and I am sure there are other details T-squared could use.

Dig out the appropriate manual and PM me about getting together.
If West Houston Airport is easier maybe we can connect up there, OR come see the bomber on Saturdays.

SPANNER

I live next to Meyerland, so IWS is not exactly close, and I am often at AXH (Houston SW airpt)....

We could meet at my complex, that may be best.
I PM you

[Second Air Force]

Okay, here is a little update on the maintenance program.

During the initial inspection a couple of popped rivet heads were discovered on a seam just aft of the right life raft door. The tape shows the offending fasteners that made us investigate:

The little door is where you reset the liferaft door latch mechanism.

I didn't take a photo of the bubbled paint, but around these two rivets was some bubbling that indicated corrosion on this skin. I scraped the top paint off and this is the final result of my poking around, taken during the disassembly process:

Notice the reddish coloration on the upper part of the skin--this is where a repair had been done many, many years ago, and I suspect that someone didn't properly prepare the new skin pieces before shooting them on. (Alodine, primer, etc.)

I cut off the corroded skin section and spent a fair amount of time fabbing a repair skin. It had to be recessed where the little access door fastens on, Dzus spring installed, radiused to fit the life raft door opening, blah blah. Imagine the "advanced aviation words" I let out when I found this:

NO $&&*%)_*^%$#)()_^^%*& EDGE DISTANCE ON THE BOTTOM!!!!!!!

Well, you know what that means:


Okay, this skin fits the airplane unlike the first attempt:


Clecoed on the turtledeck:


After getting everything fitted, drilled up, and trimmed, I cleaned the parts of the turtledeck that the new panel rivets to. The original structure was clean with no corrosion at all, which is a great thing considering the condition of that removed skin. I then alodined all the parts and laid on a coat of primer in preparation for riveting. This last photo is of the finished repair with the reset door installed.

Since I had to remake the skin, I didn't have time to shoot it together before it was time to load up and head for home.

More later,
Scott

[K5DH]

I picked up one of these big knife switches via eBay a few months ago, unused in its original box!

The stuff is still out there... if people will just dig for it... and then offer it to us...

And thanks for posting the pics of the trailing wire antenna setup. That's good information. I've snagged copies of your photos for my reference.

Cheers!

[Second Air Force]

Dean,

Glad to do it. If you need anything else documented just let me know--we plan on working on TR for the foreseeable future.

Scott

[Second Air Force]

One of the engineering features built into the B-17 was the forward/aft fuselage production break just aft of the wing. I have always admired the maintenance guys' ability to make one airplane from two battle damaged Forts--Little Miss Mischief and Half-n-Half come to mind. (My father did the same kind of thing with Shermans, M-3s, and Stuarts in the First Armored Division.) For anyone else who is curious how the Fort could be split in two halves, here is a pair of photos of the production break from the front and rear of the joint.

In the first photo I'm pointing out one of the bolts that fastens the forward and aft halves of the fuselage together:


And this is the aft side of the bulkhead where you can see the nuts that secure the flange.


Changing an aft fuselage was actually quite simple. Remove a couple of small fairings, disconnect all electrical conduits and flight control cables, unbolt the flanges, and remove the tail end.

More useless information is available if needed,
Scott

[SPANNERmkV]

That's the ticket... Since it is SO SIMPLE...
We can de-mate the back-half of TEXAS RAIDERS...
Strip it and make it that tribute to the 384th that I've always wanted.
That should get me the Col. of the Year Award.


But the picture of the right side flange does show a little bit of bubble-up that might want some looking at.

[SPANNERmkV]

For ONCE...
Things aren't AS BAD as they looked.
I got after the fuzzy part in the photo and it looks like a previous restoration team just painted over some dirt.
It cleaned right off and no particular bad stuff was noted.