Warbird Information Exchange

I plan to use the coupon but haven't decided about the advanced booking just due to seeing as how the weather can change in an instant out here. I guess i'm not really going for the blue sky but it would be nice.

Thanks!

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-Al Sauer
http://www.flickr.com/photos/spookythecat

As an owner of a dual control aircraft, if you were headed some where and wanted someone to share the expense, what would you need to charge? If you were specifically at a show offering rides, what would a half hour ride be worth to cover all your operating expenses plus wear and tear? How would you deal with any liability exposure, if at all?

I'd think that the uniqueness of your aircraft would make it a likely candidate for interested "rider/pilots". We used to say in racing, "speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" I'd set the price and see what the market bears.

Oh yeah, sorry for being such a cornhole the other night. Too much NaMTB in my coolant I think.

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"There are old pilots and bold pilots but few old, bold pilots."

I got an hour in Bill Dause's dual control Mustang a couple of years ago for
$500. Due to a communications glich, I didn't get to fly it. The P-51 rides now are WAAYY beyond our budget and unless I can fly it, I ain't interested. Although I'd be perfectly willing to pay the $2K that Bill's asking for the Spit ride, we both know I'm 60 lbs. over limit. As I'm sure most of you have heard, I'm also too "vertically endowed" to fit in the space behind Steve Hinton in "23 Skidoo" (Also for $2K.). I tried and we both agreed that my head sticking out the top of the cockpit at 300 mph wasn't a good idea.
I'm not all that excited about a ride in a bomber 'cause riding around with the noise and vibration of the engines ain't my idea of fun. I had a ride in a B-25 in '58 or '59 and it was like riding around in an empty beer can. No offense intended.
"I feel the need. The need for speed" (With apologies to Maverick.)

Mudge the selective

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Land of the free because of the brave

Ya Mudge but what if you were sitting by the open escape hatch of the B-25 beer can and watching a watching a P-38 flying formationion 30-40' away

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Don't touch my junk!!

How appropriate that this thread should be here after I just get back from my first warbird flight on the Collings B-24.

I had no problem paying the $425 for the ride and it was well worth it. Sure, I would have loved to have been able to stay up longer, but it was a dream come true. I STILL have the grin on my face. When they opened they throttles and started down the runway on the take off roll, I heard that sound that I had always heard in movies. It was almost a religious experience. You can't put a price on that.

The other benefit was getting to ride along side a 15th AF Veteran that flew 51 missions out of Italy in a B-24.

If I HAD the $3000 to spend on the 1 hour in the P-51, I wouldn't even think twice. I decided that I have to join the museum here in Tyler and start volunteering when I can. It's just unfortunate that they don't have any flying warbirds at the museum here.

Bill, what do you think your true cost is per hour? Including annuals, routine maintenance, tiedown fees, fuel, engine overhaul, insurance, paint jobs, etc.???? Do you have a loan on the plane (not that it is my business of course) or is it paid off? It's got to cost plenty! Add 15-30% to your cost for profit (you are giving the passenger the benefit of your equity after all) and $100 for your time since it must take at least an hour and a half to do a 30 minute flight by the time you clean the windows, wash the plane, air up the tires, etc.

My guess is that you are up to $600-700 for a 20 minute flight. Am I close?

Spookythecat wrote:






20+ years at OSH and no ride, what a rip off. I've said it before, and now I'll say it again, I'm no fan of OSH KOSH. I'm also no fan of people who run their pie hole, with no solution. To answer BDK's question it's dammned expensive to fly some of these airplanes. I figure "all in" the A-1E is $3450 an hour to fly based on 50 hours a year. And I'm dammn lucky to be able to do it, not a day goes by that I don't think about that.

I will make this offer to ""Spookythecat" ( and him only, as I was intrigued by the prospect of someone who has volunteered for 20 years and still saving money for a warbird ride), get to STL or one of the airshows that I am doing this year, and I'll give you a ride in the Skyraider. You have to get your self somewhere that I am, sign my ridiculous hold harmless agreement that my attorney demands, and wipe the Spad down when we are finished. That's it. It has to be coordinated in advance and fit into my schedule, no BS, just some planning. If it's workable, I'll get Lohmar to fly my T-6 or Les Heikkla to fly the Mustang, and I'll show you the formation view.

There are so many T6s flying that if the liability wasn't such a pain in the ass, those rides should be practically free. I've given away a bunch of those but you have no idea how much liability risk this poses now. Every new "best friend" that just wants to go for a ride, has some pesky "heir" that wants everything you've got if your sorry butt is no longer around because of my desire to do something nice.

Spookythecat, I don't know you from the man in the moon, but PM me to set up your ride. Everyone else, my policy is always the same, if you ask, the answer is always no, if I ask the answer is always yes.

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Eric

"I spent most of my money on alcohol, women and skyraiders....and the rest of it I just wasted."

Beautiful

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Don't touch my junk!!

Guess I won't be asking anytime soon ..... nice!

Jack wrote:



My offer to Jack, of course, stands until he is in a position to take advantage of it.

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Eric

"I spent most of my money on alcohol, women and skyraiders....and the rest of it I just wasted."

Hellcat wrote:



The point is that I do ask from time to time, not meant to be mean spirited, but I don't want to spend every airshow with people asking and asking, just come up and chat, and if it works for me, I'll ask. It's the way I've been doing it, and trust me, your're more likely to get a ride that way than the policy of most of my peers.

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Eric

"I spent most of my money on alcohol, women and skyraiders....and the rest of it I just wasted."

This whole ride for the volunteers thing was a lot easier when "observers" could go along during the show. When fuel was 1/3 the cost it was much less of a fraction of the operating expense also, so a couple of post airshow rides were more common. Add the liability issue that Eric mentions and an owner/pilot would be nearly crazy to take up anyone other than his immediate heirs. They would be the beneficiary of the estate anyhow if there ever were to be a crash (for whatever reason). No sense suing yerself!

Years ago an organization I was involved with had a crash (engine failure) where the paying passenger became a VIP for the next day at the show, broken arm and all. Luckily the passenger was willing to thank his lucky stars and accept an apology, understanding the mission of the organization and the inherent risks of antique aviation. Probably has a great story to tell his children now as well.

What's a Warbird ride worth?
Good question.
To me, it's worth whatever it is worth to the right person.
I have always told people that a ride in one of these beasts is a total sensory experience, especially if they are interested in history AT ALL.

To experience the sights and smells, the vibration and movement through the air, is to really make clear what those young men went through for us so long ago. You can watch the "Memphis Belle" (either one!) a hundred times, but one trip in a B-17 and you get a whole new perspective. As soon as the engines start there is movement and shaking, noise, lots of noise. I can't imagine ever going out to do battle in one and trying to navigate and hold tight position on the lead ship, all while someone is shooting stuff at me!

To experience the limited visibility, tight quarters and thin aluminum in flight is truly an eye opener. You'll experience everything those young heroes did except the extreme cold, the firing 50's, and the lethal lead flying at you!

You can fly from NY to LA for $400 right now, but for $425-450, you can take a trip you'll never forget, AND in a real time machine. I'm not pushing any particular ride out there, but if you like aviation history and love warbirds, take a ride, you'll never forget it, and you'll look at history from a whole new perspective.
I'm not kidding. Don't pass it up, it's great!
Blue skies,
Jerry

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"Always remember that, when you enter the ocean or the forest, you are no longer at the top of the food chain."

BDK Wrote:



True. I have however decided to take on some of this crazy risk, from time to time, in order to share the experience with others. I know there is a chance I could regret it, but what's the point in letting a bunch of ambulance chasers have all the fun.

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Eric

"I spent most of my money on alcohol, women and skyraiders....and the rest of it I just wasted."

I paid $75 in 1986 dollars for my first warbird ride...Chuckie. I went to work as a volunteer for them, and work it was. Every Saturday for a few years and I got a few rides that will forever be in my memory. I have paid for some, worked for some and got very lucky on a few more. Every single one of my trips was worth every bit of blood, sweat and cash.

I picked up the crack pipe again last weekend...dangit...Now my wife is worried

There are very few places that one can experience this type of thrill....and one that won't be here forever.

Bill, I think you could charge 3K easy for an hour of flight training in your machine. Besides how many dual control Spits are there flying around the US?

I think Bill is a big tease because I haven't been under 180lbs since 9th grade... and... I think that 3k is too much for Mustang training, only because I don't have it.

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Zane Adams
There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.
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