Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:29 pm
Hey Peter,
I have no idea why the airplane hasn't been secured better. A tarp sounds like a really simple answer for coving up the big holes in the blisters.
Seeing as how the Canso is owned by a foreign interest, they probably have a poorer idea of the condition of the airplane compared to if they were local onwers. In the least the airplane should have a tarp to prevent water, animals, etc. from entering the airplane.
Thankfully warmer and dryer weather is... nearly around the corner.
Cheers,
David
I have no idea why the airplane hasn't been secured better. A tarp sounds like a really simple answer for coving up the big holes in the blisters.
Seeing as how the Canso is owned by a foreign interest, they probably have a poorer idea of the condition of the airplane compared to if they were local onwers. In the least the airplane should have a tarp to prevent water, animals, etc. from entering the airplane.
Thankfully warmer and dryer weather is... nearly around the corner.
Cheers,
David
Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:45 pm
Thanks Andrew for a very interesting report. Glad to see you on WIX.
Peter, David, you clearly (IMHO) here have owners who believe the value of the aircraft is some list price in a book, and don't understand normal depreciation let alone the massive depreciation of a delicate asset left out, unmaintained in the weather.
We are, I am all too sure, looking at an owner who overvalues the aircraft that isn't worth a base purchase price. Caveat emptor. It's not going to be worth what they want for it.
Peter, David, you clearly (IMHO) here have owners who believe the value of the aircraft is some list price in a book, and don't understand normal depreciation let alone the massive depreciation of a delicate asset left out, unmaintained in the weather.
We are, I am all too sure, looking at an owner who overvalues the aircraft that isn't worth a base purchase price. Caveat emptor. It's not going to be worth what they want for it.
Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:01 pm
James,
I think you hit the nail right on the head with your comment.
just last year, and shortly after the airplane suffered the tail strike and subsequent blister damage, the price they were looking to get for it was $100,000USD. That seemed a bit rich back then.
Let's consider what a flying Canso would be sold for today. The last PBY I saw for sale was ex-waterbomber and they were looking for $375,000 (IF I remember correctly). This of course was in flying condition.
Now let's consider the amount of work that would need to be done on the Canso at Nanaimo Airport. One suggestion is $500,000 to get her flying again. hmm.... with that amount of work needed taken into consideration, the appropriate selling price for the airplane should be around -$125,000. That's right, a negative number!!
But I don't think they want to sell a plane and give money away at the same time.
In my own calculations based on (older) info from Plane Sailing, I figured the amount of work to get her flying would be around $350,000 (a more conservative figure) but that would leave the airplane only worth $25,000. Maybe that's appropriate?!!?
What a strange situation.
Anyways, as usual, I will let you all know what news comes of all this.
Cheers,
David McIntosh
I think you hit the nail right on the head with your comment.
just last year, and shortly after the airplane suffered the tail strike and subsequent blister damage, the price they were looking to get for it was $100,000USD. That seemed a bit rich back then.
Let's consider what a flying Canso would be sold for today. The last PBY I saw for sale was ex-waterbomber and they were looking for $375,000 (IF I remember correctly). This of course was in flying condition.
Now let's consider the amount of work that would need to be done on the Canso at Nanaimo Airport. One suggestion is $500,000 to get her flying again. hmm.... with that amount of work needed taken into consideration, the appropriate selling price for the airplane should be around -$125,000. That's right, a negative number!!
But I don't think they want to sell a plane and give money away at the same time.
In my own calculations based on (older) info from Plane Sailing, I figured the amount of work to get her flying would be around $350,000 (a more conservative figure) but that would leave the airplane only worth $25,000. Maybe that's appropriate?!!?
What a strange situation.
Anyways, as usual, I will let you all know what news comes of all this.
Cheers,
David McIntosh
Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:13 pm
daveymac82c wrote:What a strange situation.
Indeed, but sadly all too common. They've probaly been told how 'valuable' old aircraft (like Mustangs) are and don't realise that their asset is dead in the water, saleswise.
Can we have some informed comment on PBY sales values, to Davey by PM if not for public consumption?
Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:20 am
So Andrew Bryant was kind enough to play hookie from his work the other day and he went and got some pictures of the Canso at Nanaimo Airport. He created a wonderful write up of the condition of the interior and exterior of the plane and here are some pictures he took, but due to issues of the windows Vista kind, he has asked me to post them on his behalf. All photos in this post are credited to Andrew Bryant.
I just spoke to Andrew on the phone and he told me that the interior of the plane was in surprisingly good condition except for the mildew and mold damage to the fabric seats. Apparently the smell was not good.
Enjoy the pictures of this airplane, and fingers crossed, she'll be at a better home soon.
Within the next week we hope to at least do a little bit to help protect the airplane by draping and fastening a tarp over the damaged blisters.
Cheers,
David McIntosh
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I just spoke to Andrew on the phone and he told me that the interior of the plane was in surprisingly good condition except for the mildew and mold damage to the fabric seats. Apparently the smell was not good.
Enjoy the pictures of this airplane, and fingers crossed, she'll be at a better home soon.
Within the next week we hope to at least do a little bit to help protect the airplane by draping and fastening a tarp over the damaged blisters.
Cheers,
David McIntosh
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Interior
Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:20 am
Great pics Dave!
The interior looks a bit rough but nothing too serious. If the blisters were intact I would suggest running a dehumidifier inside to help with moisture etc. Looks like the birds are geting inside though..?
The interior looks a bit rough but nothing too serious. If the blisters were intact I would suggest running a dehumidifier inside to help with moisture etc. Looks like the birds are geting inside though..?
Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:54 pm
Hi Peter,
Actually I saw no bird or mammal droppings inside (and because I work as a professional conservation biologist I presumably would have noticed that). Today I am experiencing a nasty cold (mildew-induced issues I suspect). You may be interested to learn that there is another endangered species that lives at this airport...a species known as the Vesper Sparrow.
Thank you David for posting my images. I still haven't resolved my Vista photo-uploading problems.
Now let's see what we can do to save that aircraft.
Andrew
Actually I saw no bird or mammal droppings inside (and because I work as a professional conservation biologist I presumably would have noticed that). Today I am experiencing a nasty cold (mildew-induced issues I suspect). You may be interested to learn that there is another endangered species that lives at this airport...a species known as the Vesper Sparrow.
Thank you David for posting my images. I still haven't resolved my Vista photo-uploading problems.
Now let's see what we can do to save that aircraft.
Andrew
hmm
Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:05 pm
Dave,
Third pic shows what appears to be bird leavings..??
Regarding that cold.. monitor it and if it gets worse or continues for a week seek a doctor as mold induced illnesses can be rough...
Third pic shows what appears to be bird leavings..??
Regarding that cold.. monitor it and if it gets worse or continues for a week seek a doctor as mold induced illnesses can be rough...
Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:45 pm
This thread is developing well indeed. Welcome aboard Andrew. You guys wanna smell a stanky airplane, come down to Galveston. Andrew, is your little sparrow holding its own?
As for value, refer to my previous comment. The 'percieved value' of old aircraft often falls into the realm of people who try to get new car price for a fifteen year old hooptie. Like a certain vitage civil aircraft I was unfortunate enought to become involved with.
Sorry if I'm rambling but I'm thinking of replies to several posts. Thelittle white spots don't look like bird stuff on any consequence. Be glad it doesn't have a pigeon infestation! One of the hangars at Ellington Field in Houston has a resident owl for pest control. CAF maybe?
Not many surviving PBY's have the engrs. station in the tower. I guess that's a modernization for the sake of function.
Doug , Canso42.
As for value, refer to my previous comment. The 'percieved value' of old aircraft often falls into the realm of people who try to get new car price for a fifteen year old hooptie. Like a certain vitage civil aircraft I was unfortunate enought to become involved with.
Sorry if I'm rambling but I'm thinking of replies to several posts. Thelittle white spots don't look like bird stuff on any consequence. Be glad it doesn't have a pigeon infestation! One of the hangars at Ellington Field in Houston has a resident owl for pest control. CAF maybe?
Not many surviving PBY's have the engrs. station in the tower. I guess that's a modernization for the sake of function.
Doug , Canso42.
Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:55 pm
Seems like Ive heard in discussion of the blisters on PBY@yahoo that original blister frames in restorable condition are getting hard to find. What's your take on it David Legg?
BTW, I think G-PBYA's black blisters look fine.
Doug
BTW, I think G-PBYA's black blisters look fine.
Doug
Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:00 am
Re. blisters, interestingly, people still seem to be able to find them and I know that quite recently a very nice looking pair were available from Ray Williams at Catalina Aero at Nanaimo, C-FNJB's current home. I think SLAFCO had quite a few at Moses Lake before their spares cache was auctioned. I have always been intrigued by the apparent speed with which some organisations have managed to put blisters back on to previously modified airframes. When we did it to our first Catalina, then registered G-BLSC, it was a pretty major job and took a while although the end result was a set that opened in the original 'eyelid' fashion rather than having a hinged inner section such as some of the PBYs still flying with blisters have. The ones on the CWH's Canso look particularly nice and they seemed to go on pretty quickly but I don't know off hand if they are fully functional. I'm sure someone will tell me.
Incidentally,I've always wondered why Ray Williams has not taken more steps to ensure that C-FNJB has been better looked after whilst parked on his doorstep. He doesn't own it of course and there may be issues with the owners that mean he is not disposed to do so but it is rather sad that it has been allowed to deteriorate so markedly. Lucky we got C-FNJF when we did!
Incidentally,I've always wondered why Ray Williams has not taken more steps to ensure that C-FNJB has been better looked after whilst parked on his doorstep. He doesn't own it of course and there may be issues with the owners that mean he is not disposed to do so but it is rather sad that it has been allowed to deteriorate so markedly. Lucky we got C-FNJF when we did!
Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:09 am
Hi David,
Was Ray associated with FT Inc with the Mars? I talked to a chap at Sproat Lake in 2002 who had installed the blisters and mods to the two Cats at Nanaimo, where they were sitting then.
Cheers,
Was Ray associated with FT Inc with the Mars? I talked to a chap at Sproat Lake in 2002 who had installed the blisters and mods to the two Cats at Nanaimo, where they were sitting then.
Cheers,
Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:07 pm
It was Ray who did the work on the blisters for 'JB and 'JF and he also did an earlier job on C-FOWE which was the infamous Plymouth 'water-looper' and is now with Connie Edwards as N222FT. So, he may well have been the guy you spoke with although I dont know for sure that he worked for the Mars team.
Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:18 pm
That's good news to hear about the blister frames, David. I guess whoever I heard that from just didn't have the right contacts.
Doug
Doug
Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:37 pm
So,
a fair amount has transpired lately regarding the CMF's attempts to acquire Canso C-FNJB. Funny enough, that registration was cancelled some time back and a friend of mine now flies a Cessna 152 with that exact registration at Boundary Bay Airport, BC. I suppose we should refer to her as: RCAF 9815.
In communication with the president of the CMF, I have been told that we are now seriously working on acquiring this airplane. I have taken a little bit of a back seat in the process as I do not have much experience with this kind of work. I can only hope things go well and we are able to secure enough funding for the purchase.
Upon acquisition it will be transported to the CMF homesite at Langley, BC where it will be on public display. We also intend to return her to original WWII RCAF configuration. I can only assume this will mean original blisters and nose turret. Ray Williams will most likely be our source for those components.
Andrew, I sure hope you start feeling better soon. So much for playing hookie from work that day and getting away with it, eh?. I certainly hope it's just a cold and nothing to do with the nasty mold that your pictures indicated.
It is Andrew's and my intention to get a tarp on the airplane ASAP. I'm on the other side of the water from Nanaimo so it's hard for me to help, but I get the feeling Andrew will be putting an effort in to getting a tarp on her as soon as he's feeling better.
Sorry Andrew, I hope I didn't just "Voluntold" you.
That's all for now.
Cheers,
David McIntosh
a fair amount has transpired lately regarding the CMF's attempts to acquire Canso C-FNJB. Funny enough, that registration was cancelled some time back and a friend of mine now flies a Cessna 152 with that exact registration at Boundary Bay Airport, BC. I suppose we should refer to her as: RCAF 9815.
In communication with the president of the CMF, I have been told that we are now seriously working on acquiring this airplane. I have taken a little bit of a back seat in the process as I do not have much experience with this kind of work. I can only hope things go well and we are able to secure enough funding for the purchase.
Upon acquisition it will be transported to the CMF homesite at Langley, BC where it will be on public display. We also intend to return her to original WWII RCAF configuration. I can only assume this will mean original blisters and nose turret. Ray Williams will most likely be our source for those components.
Andrew, I sure hope you start feeling better soon. So much for playing hookie from work that day and getting away with it, eh?. I certainly hope it's just a cold and nothing to do with the nasty mold that your pictures indicated.
It is Andrew's and my intention to get a tarp on the airplane ASAP. I'm on the other side of the water from Nanaimo so it's hard for me to help, but I get the feeling Andrew will be putting an effort in to getting a tarp on her as soon as he's feeling better.
Sorry Andrew, I hope I didn't just "Voluntold" you.
That's all for now.
Cheers,
David McIntosh