What NOT to do

[Bust*A*Stitch]

Me thinks the eyes deceive. Look carefully at his right hand. It appears he has a blue wrag (doesn't match his shirt) a little also visible between his fingers, pinky and ring finger.

I think he is "huffing" to determine the origin of the liquid.

That blue rag is the denim covered behind of the guy behind him.

[Tulio]

It appears he has a blue wrag (doesn't match his shirt)

What? Now we have to wear color matching outfits to attend airshows? : )


Saludos,


Tulio

[Tulio]

This was Mike, shorthly after shutting the P-63 engine off. The other photo was shot a couple of minutes later.




Saludos,


Tulio

[fritzthefox]

Y'know, interestingly enough, Mythbusters did a show recently where they tried to emulate the classic Hollywood burning trail of gasoline, and had great difficulty getting it to ignite at all. It seems that the only way fuel will burn readily is when it is vaporized with oxygen (i.e. what a carburetor does). Otherwise, you can stick a lit match in it and just end up holding a wet match.

Leaking fuel ignites because the vapors trapped in the tank are released at the same time, but they rapidly dissipate into the surrounding air, so any puddle of fuel left standing more than a few seconds is far less likely to go poof. Some modern military planes and jet airliners pump nitrogen into fuel tanks to replace spent fuel in order to reduce the flammability of the plane in case of a hit to the tanks (because it prevents the fuel vapors from mixing with oxygen).

Not that I would recommend putting the smoking lounge next to the hangar, but I suspect the knee jerk reaction to chase smokers away from airplanes is a bit overzealous. Anyone know of an actual incident of an airplane blowing up because some aspiring cancer patient got too close?

(Not trolling, just curious)

[51fixer]

When the P-63 leaks fuel from a broken line . . .

CORRECTION!!!!!!! I believe that it was either a fuel line or hhydraulic fluid, but not oil. Tulio. 021908


Saludos,


Tulio

Don't think it is hyd. fluid. Only thing hyd on a 63 is the brakes. It doesn't have a main hyd system that would leak from that area in that quanity. What would leak from there would be coolant, oil or fuel. Honestly when looking at how you have big spots around the main puddle shown in the photo it looks like oil or maybe coolant. Fuel seems to puddle and leave very small spots. It is much thinner in viscosity and evaporates real fast. Hot oil or coolant would look like that. My 2 cents from what I have experienced.
Rich

[DoraNineFan]

Y'know, interestingly enough, Mythbusters did a show recently where they tried to emulate the classic Hollywood burning trail of gasoline, and had great difficulty getting it to ignite at all. It seems that the only way fuel will burn readily is when it is vaporized with oxygen (i.e. what a carburetor does). Otherwise, you can stick a lit match in it and just end up holding a wet match.

Leaking fuel ignites because the vapors trapped in the tank are released at the same time, but they rapidly dissipate into the surrounding air, so any puddle of fuel left standing more than a few seconds is far less likely to go poof. Some modern military planes and jet airliners pump nitrogen into fuel tanks to replace spent fuel in order to reduce the flammability of the plane in case of a hit to the tanks (because it prevents the fuel vapors from mixing with oxygen).

Not that I would recommend putting the smoking lounge next to the hangar, but I suspect the knee jerk reaction to chase smokers away from airplanes is a bit overzealous. Anyone know of an actual incident of an airplane blowing up because some aspiring cancer patient got too close?

(Not trolling, just curious)

You're forgetting that aviation gasoline is more volatile than automotive gasoline, which was used on the TV show. I've heard it said that a match dropped into a small puddle of unleaded auto gas COULD go out. (Haven't tried it, though. )

Gasoline vapors will vent out of a tank or container (or evaporate from a spill) and do not need the assistance of the carburetor to ignite. Static electricity while fueling your car, or a pilot light in the garage with gas fumes from a can will both have unfortunate results.

[fritzthefox]

They tried AV and diesel gas on the show, too, to find the one that would burn fastest (not sure if they used jet fuel or 100LL...jet fuel would be more difficult to ignite than av gas, I think), with similar results. Diesel was the most stubborn to light, which is one reason tank designers like diesel engines.

[Ryan Keough]

Based on an OSHA flashpoint chart, Gasoline (petrol) has a flashpoint of <40 degrees F, Diesel has a flashpoint of >143 degrees F, Jet Fuel has a flashpoint of >100 degrees F, and Kerosene (parafffin oil) has a flashpoint of between >100 degrees F and >162 degrees F.

So yes, it's much harder to get Jet Fuel to vaporize and ignite...

[famvburg]

Well, they don't look too professional to me.

That sure looks more like oil than fuel to me.

Agreed, but still not a great example of professionalism.

Gary

[sdennison]

Me thinks the eyes deceive. Look carefully at his right hand. It appears he has a blue wrag (doesn't match his shirt) a little also visible between his fingers, pinky and ring finger.

I think he is "huffing" to determine the origin of the liquid.

That blue rag is the denim covered behind of the guy behind him.

HMMMMMMMM...how do you know it's the behind, behind?

[sdennison]

It appears he has a blue wrag (doesn't match his shirt)

What? Now we have to wear color matching outfits to attend airshows? : )


Saludos,


Tulio

la la la la...Your red scarf matches your eyes. You close your cover before striking. Mama's got the steamfitters blues. Loving you has made me bannanas....

[Tulio]

: )


OTH: How flammable is hydraulic fluid? I recall seeing flammable warnings on hyd barrels and plastic (?) containers.

The No Smoking - No Fumar - Rauchen Verbotten - Defense de Fumer, and so on, are still out there for a good reason, right?


Saludos,


Tulio

[Forgotten Field]

Hydraulic Fluid is flammable, and gets more flammable when you mix it with an Oxidizer like Chlorine or concentrated Oxygen.

[Canso42]

I personally will err on the side of safety with flammable fuel. A former employer had the corporate slogan, "When in doubt, take the safe course." I don't worry about flash points. Sources of ignition and loose flammables don't need to be in the same place. Especially if my behind is nearby.

Tell someone on the ramp to put it out. If they get horsey about it, talk to your supervisors.

Canso the cautious.