What If? Theoretical dogfights

[McKConnor0307]

What if, (and some of these encounters may have happened a time or two but not on a large scale) the great single engine fighters of WW2 faced off against planes from different theaters?
Obviously the pairings chart could be large but what about a few of the obvious matchups?
If these planes met in a clear blue sky with the pilots of the same ability, what if,
Hellcat vs Me-109
Corsair vs FW-190
Spitfire vs Zero
Corsair vs FW-190 or ME 109
and, I know this did happen, but how did the P-51 fare against the Zero?
Disreguarding the fact that Japanese pilot quality had been severely diminished by the time the P-51 came into the Pacific, what if the pilots were of equal ability in this matchup?

[tom d. friedman]

while most of the experienced japanese pilot pool was decimated by 1945, there were still a handful of viable one's as well. namely above all the naval fighter squadron that was hand picked to form "genda's blade" the squadron picked to fly the kawanishi george, composed of all aces. they racked up an incredible kill tally against overwhelming allied air superiority. a fair number other japanese pilots performed well also, but collectively, that outfit stands above most.

[Shay]

I may be off here but I thought the Corsair vs FW-190 or
ME 109.....did in fact happen.

Leading to the Luftwaffe capturing the Corsair.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[Bill Greenwood]

As for the George, Sakai's book Samurai writes that it was fast and heavily armed, not quite a maneuverable as the Zero, but difficult for novice pilots to learn to fly, an it sound like more of a bomber killer. He had great respect for the Hellcat. As for Hellcat potential against a 109, probably the Hellcat is better up to higher altitudes, where the later 109 would have more speed and probably better dive. The Hellcat top speed is only 380 mph. Some Spits did fight Zeros. In an early engagement weather, thunderstorms, and long distances of the Pacific as well as Zeros cost some Spits. I think with better tactics and better planning, Spitfires gained superiority near Australia. I don't think Spits were based on many of the islands nor on US carriers so may not have had as many combats. A Spit IX would have quite a speed edge over a Zero, and a big margin in dive. It could not loop with a Zero, as nothing else could. A Merlin P-51 would be similar to a Spit IX, superior in speed and dive to a Zero, but never want to turn and loop.

[bdk]

Some of these may have happened, but with captured aircraft for testing.

[JDK]

As bdk says, some of these comparisons were made in testing.

If you really want to know, I suggest getting hold of Capt Eric 'Winkle' Brown's book 'Testing For Combat'. Unlike just about anyone else, he is a qualified test pilot and flew all the mentioned types in full military configuration, during and after W.W.II, in most cases for evaluation. No theory or bar-room expertise, there, just the facts.

[lestweforget]

Some of these may have happened, but with captured aircraft for testing.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/ptr-1107.pdf

[drgondog]

I may be off here but I thought the Corsair vs FW-190 or
ME 109.....did in fact happen.

Leading to the Luftwaffe capturing the Corsair.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

The Corsair was captured by Japanese and transported to Germany via Sub in 1944

[Mudge]

lestweforget...WOW...thanks for the link. I'm not usually one for statistics and such, but I couldn't stop reading that.

Mudge the appreciative

[famvburg]

I've never heard that before. Did the Germans do anything with the Corsair or was it too late in the war?

I may be off here but I thought the Corsair vs FW-190 or
ME 109.....did in fact happen.

Leading to the Luftwaffe capturing the Corsair.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

The Corsair was captured by Japanese and transported to Germany via Sub in 1944

[famvburg]

ISTR reading somewhere that some RN Wildcats/Martlets went against Bf 109s. I remember many years back (mid - late '70s) in a Wings or Airpower that ran several issues about "Kit" Carson & IIRC, he commented that it would have taken Grumman's F8F to truly give the FW 190 a real workout.

What if, (and some of these encounters may have happened a time or two but not on a large scale) the great single engine fighters of WW2 faced off against planes from different theaters?
Obviously the pairings chart could be large but what about a few of the obvious matchups?
If these planes met in a clear blue sky with the pilots of the same ability, what if,
Hellcat vs Me-109
Corsair vs FW-190
Spitfire vs Zero
Corsair vs FW-190 or ME 109
and, I know this did happen, but how did the P-51 fare against the Zero?
Disreguarding the fact that Japanese pilot quality had been severely diminished by the time the P-51 came into the Pacific, what if the pilots were of equal ability in this matchup?

[Shay]

The Corsair was captured by Japanese and transported to Germany via Sub in 1944

Nope not the one I was referring to. Any Info the one you speak of?

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/FAACapturedAircraftHomepage.html

Corsair JT404 of 1841 squadron. Involved in anti-submarine patrol from HMS Formidable enroute to Scapa after Operation Mascot against the German Battleship Tirpitz, in company with Barracuda of Wing Leader Lt Cdr RS Baker-Falkner. Emergency landing in a field at Sorvag, Hameroy, near Bodo, Norway on 18 July 1944. The pilot Lt Mattholie taken POW and the aircraft captured intact with no damage. The german authorities made attempts to get the pilot to explain how to fold the wings so as to transport the aircraft to Narvik. Aircraft was ferried by boat for further investigation. It is not known if the Corsair was taken to Germany. This was probably the first Corsair captured by the Germans. Aircraft is listed at Rechlin for 1944 under repair.

Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

[drgondog]

Yep.

It was taken to Rechlin for Test but HansWerner Leche did not list it as one the many ships he flew as Luftwaffe Test pilot.

I'll have to dig but I believe the first reference to the 'Japanese' connection was in Strangers in a Strange land...

[corsair166b]

Wow....first I've heard of this...knew a Corsair was shot down during the Tirpitz raids, but never knew one was captured....to see one in Luftwaffe markings...WILD....the plane illustrated is not the right model (appears from the illustration to be a -5 model) but you get the basic idea (the ones in use with the Brits at that time would have been 1A or -1D's), but very interesting stuff....however, and as discussed here before, Corsairs never fought 190's or 109's, but Hellcats and Wildcats did and did pretty well...

By all means, gents, continue...I love this theoretical stuff...

Mark

[McKConnor0307]

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ ... r-1107.pdf

Thanks so much for this link. Really, really interesting stuff. Just what I was looking for. If you know of any other similar tests involing other aircraft....Great stuff.