Should the F-15 Be Rebuilt, is a Spitfire better?

[mustangdriver]

Mustangdriver and guys, the idea of a Spit outperforming an F-15 was to be humorous! It's only true is the one sense of the non assisted carrier landing, along with cheaper, and of course the non performance items like beauty, noise, smell. Rumor has it that the F-15 goes a bit faster, climbs better, and might have a few more of those special Batman like weapons on board than the Spit. Of course, in the greatest war we ever had, and hope we never top it, the Spitfire was up to the challenge.
Now whether the F-15 should be rebuilt or replaced may be a real question.

I agree with Bill that the replacement for some of our fleet of aircraft needs to be figured out.

[Neal Nurmi]

Anybody have a sense of the unit cost of an F-22 compared to F-15 or F-16? Not talking about capability, but per year cost over a decade, for instance. I wonder about whether a country would be better off with 300 absolute world-beater aircraft, or 1000 of an aircraft of somewhat lesser capability that was still better than any other country has...

An old and tattered debate, I know, but still interesting to me...

[Jiggersfromsphilly]

Instead of the Spitfire as a replacement....Why not the P-51?

How many of those could be build for the price of one F-15 upgrade or replacement?

[Mike Bates]

Anybody have a sense of the unit cost of an F-22 compared to F-15 or F-16? Not talking about capability, but per year cost over a decade, for instance. I wonder about whether a country would be better off with 300 absolute world-beater aircraft, or 1000 of an aircraft of somewhat lesser capability that was still better than any other country has...

An old and tattered debate, I know, but still interesting to me...

The F-15C production line is closed. The Strike Eagle is the only one in production right now and an F-15K cost around $100 million and the F-22 is around $130 million. I've seen F-16 numbers from $32 - $45 million, maybe depends on what model and bell and whistles you get.

Mike

[K5DH]

Anybody have a sense of the unit cost of an F-22 compared to F-15 or F-16? Not talking about capability, but per year cost over a decade, for instance. I wonder about whether a country would be better off with 300 absolute world-beater aircraft, or 1000 of an aircraft of somewhat lesser capability that was still better than any other country has... An old and tattered debate, I know, but still interesting to me...

There are some inherent problems with having 1000 good jets versus 300 great jets: you'd need 700 more pilots, 700 more ground crews, 700 more planes' worth of spares, 700 more parking places, and so on. Cost-wise, 1000 top-end F-16s, assuming a cost of $45 million each, would cost $45 billion to buy. 300 F-22s, assuming a cost of $130 million each, would cost $39 billion to buy. It seems that it really is cheaper to have a fleet of thoroughly modern Raptors instead of a bigger fleet of comparitively outdated F-16s.

Of course, the debate still rages on about whether or not we will ever really need the incredible capabilities of the Raptor. If we didn't have the Raptor, then our current very-best is the F-15C. Do "the other guys" have anything currently deployed that would best the Eagle in a fight? I think I've read about a few that would. Randy Haskin could probably fill us in on that subject. I've also read that nobody has anything that will take out the Raptor, at least not yet. Personally, I'd rather have the Raptor and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Cheers!

[F3A-1]

Bring back the DEFENDER! I think you have all made it clear that it's the plane to beat!

Oh I forgot. It didn't fly so well did it?

Pirate Lex
http://www.BrewsterCorsair.com

[Randy Haskin]

Wow, how did we miss that?! Clearly The Defender is the answer here.

After all...the CF-18 is "too expensive".

[6trn4brn]

Randy...thanx for the professionalism you used in answering my questions. There are quite a number of fellas here that could learn a lot from you and your ability to answer questions from dummies like me

I was basing my words and thoughts on what a woman I was friends with when I was in the Air Force told me about the Israeli F-15s. She was a part of Air Force intel, so I thought she might know what she was talking about.

As far as the billions and billions of dollars spent, I would not have a problem with that, if there were not so much of it going in people's pockets instead of being used to actually procure much needed things for the military of any branch. I guess I am guilty of relying too much on the media types who broadcast stories about the fraud and abuse by contractors and our military personnel either do without or make-do with inferior/defective products.

Finally, I think what some of the responses here were in reference to the fact that there is an awful lot of resources tied-up when a civilian aircraft strays too close to a restricted area. It would seem prudent to find alternative ways to escort a 172 out of an area like that, rather than send an F-16 screaming out after it. I believe a Spitfire with a modern built Merlin in it would suffice

[EDowning]

If you really "need" a GA killer, just arm up the Texan IIs and add the mission into the flight training syllabus.

Or you could make some more T-37s, I'm sure Cessna needs some more work. It would be a marketing coop for them, they could make the GA TFR busters and the solution to shoot them down and the the business cycle would be self sustaining.

Headline: Tweet Shoots Down Twits.

[Saville]

Anybody have a sense of the unit cost of an F-22 compared to F-15 or F-16? Not talking about capability, but per year cost over a decade, for instance. I wonder about whether a country would be better off with 300 absolute world-beater aircraft, or 1000 of an aircraft of somewhat lesser capability that was still better than any other country has...

An old and tattered debate, I know, but still interesting to me...

The F-15C production line is closed. The Strike Eagle is the only one in production right now and an F-15K cost around $100 million and the F-22 is around $130 million. I've seen F-16 numbers from $32 - $45 million, maybe depends on what model and bell and whistles you get.

Mike

I read in this month's Air Force Association mag that the F-15's we are now building, are for other countries, and the USAF wouldn't accept them. The production line would have to change.

I also read that there are some large forgings for the F-22 that take 2 years to fabricate and test. I read a quote from Moseley saying the same thing.

[Forgotten Field]

When the Chinese field a fighter, it's not going to take 2 years to manufacture and test the special forgings on the aircraft, and they are going to build a sh**load more of them than we build....

We'd better get our heads out of our collective a&&es before we get them handed to us in the next big one...

[RickH]

Maybe the F-15s that are being built for other countries have a self destruct feature built into them. Is it possible that someone has had the forethought to plan for a friendly country today becoming unfriendly tomorrow ? NAHHHH, that couldn't be it !!

[retroaviation]

Headline: Tweet Shoots Down Twits.

[B17news]

When the Chinese field a fighter, it's not going to take 2 years to manufacture and test the special forgings on the aircraft, and they are going to build a sh**load more of them than we build....

We'd better get our heads out of our collective a&&es before we get them handed to us in the next big one...

lets hope their aviation industry doesn't share the assembly line with its automotive industry or there will be "industrial accidents" on a scale not yet seen in modern times.

B