Ranger Engine advice

[Old Shep]

Anyone out there know of a crackerjack Ranger engine expert? We seem to be having trouble with one of ours....Leads appreciated.

Old Shep

[Matt Gunsch]

hint, the cylinders go on the bottom. Sorry, could not resist.
If there is a shop overhauling them I would give them a shout, if not, a parts supplier.
What sort of trouble are you having ?

Last edited by Matt Gunsch on Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[LadyO2Pilot]

Bill......not sure how to get a hold of him but I bet someone else on WIX can give you the contact info for Paul Fiala. I suspect he could probably help...IIRC his old orange Great Lakes had a Ranger engine.

Good Luck

[Steven M. Dennis]

Old Shep,

You have to call Joe Denest. There is no better Ranger guru out there than Joe in my opinion....

1-610-399-7028

Tell him I sent you his way.

Steve

[Cvairwerks]

Give Jamie Treat over at the Fairchild Club a ring. He should know just about everyone in the biz that correctly handles Rangers. I don't have his number handy, but it's on the club website.

[muddyboots]

Old Shep,

You have to call Joe Denest. There is no better Ranger guru out there than Joe in my opinion....

1-610-399-7028

Tell him I sent you his way.

Steve

Stephen, it's wise not to post names and numbers on the internet like that. PM it to him instead so every scallywag and thief out there doesn't use it for bad things Or am I preaching to the choir?

[airnutz]

Old Shep,

You have to call Joe Denest. There is no better Ranger guru out there than Joe in my opinion....

1-610-399-7028

Tell him I sent you his way.

Steve

Stephen, it's wise not to post names and numbers on the internet like that. PM it to him instead so every scallywag and thief out there doesn't use it for bad things Or am I preaching to the choir?

Ya know 'Boots...he ain't a crack dealer...his bidness is Rangers..and
and you can reach him for bidnes at the number.

This is an Information Exchange...

[Steven M. Dennis]

Stephen, it's wise not to post names and numbers on the internet like that. PM it to him instead so every scallywag and thief out there doesn't use it for bad things Or am I preaching to the choir?

Thanks for the friendly advice Muddy.

I don't think Joe worries much about scallywags, (I call him all of the time..)

But if it bothers you, I will refrain from posting that kind of info here. (Please don't look over on the Fairchild Club forum board though, we throw that kind of information around over on that site like popcorn in a movie theatre.)

Merry Christmas my friend,

Steve

P.S. Jamie Treat is another excellent choice. P.M. me if you would like his contact info Old Shep.

[Old Shep]

Thanks all for the comments.

Our problem began with a bad cylinder, progressed to a camshaft with significant problems, went to overhauling cylinders (at the only place in the country who will do that) to reassembly by our team of mechanic types. All was good until the first engine run....#4 and #6 simply refuse to fire....dead as a doornail. At first we suspected ignition problems, but trouble-shooting (lengthy, trust me!) we eliminated that area. Then off came the two cylinders to check valves, etc...surprise, they are good, nothing apparently wrong there. So, we are now back to looking at timing, mags, etc.

We have talked to Joe Denest previously....we called him Monday but haven't heard back from him.

The engine was running like a watch (inspite of the bad cylinder) and the airplane (F-24) is such a nice one to fly. We are continuing the struggle...

Old Shep

[Steven M. Dennis]

Old Shep,

I "PM'd" you with Jamie Treat's phone number.

Let me know if you have any trouble getting ahold of him, and I'll get in touch with Joe tonight for you.

Steve

[Wheels up]

Verify cam timing and lift.....
Are you calling #6 the front cylinder as it should be (#1 is furthest aft in tractor application)? Verify cam timing and lift with a quick leakdown test. Ranger 440 has 6 crank throws at 120 deg each. If you set #1 at TDC (I think the #1 crank throw is aligned with the master spline, so mark it on your prop hub) and leak down and note prop blade position. Progress thru the firing order and each cylinder from there, the same blade should be 120 deg from previous to TDC the next cylinder. If cam is timed incorrectly the leakdown will fail at the 120 degree setting due to valve opening. You stated camshaft problems so just trying to verify and eliminate that issue as well as rockers and rollers. It is easy to get that tower shaft and it's myriad of adjustments out of whack! Just a quick way of verifying the cam timing with out taking the gabillion nuts loose on the cambox cover!
How are you holding the ignition leads in those breadbox mag thimbles? Are we certain they are down there and in the correct order? Don't pay any attention to the little numbered spots.....verify by rotating mag and setting each lead in according to firing order.
Just some thoughts.

[Old Shep]

Wheels up:

We'll try your suggestions tomorrow.

Re: the numbers on the mags....we wondered if perhaps the numbers don't match the cylinders...Like I said, we're open to any suggestion now.

Old Shep

[Wheels up]

The numbers on the mags DO NOT match the cylinder numbers (if I recall correctly)....they are the sequence in the firing order I think, don't have the manuals here. So...
IE:

MAG #1 goes to #1 cylinder in firing order which is cylinder #1
MAG #2 goes to #2 cylinder in firing order which is cylinder #5
MAG #3 goes to #3 cylinder in firing order which is cylinder #3
MAG #4 goes to #4 cylinder in firing order which is cylinder #6
MAG #5 goes to #5 cylinder in firing order which is cylinder #2
MAG #6 goes to #6 cylinder in firing order which is cylinder #4

Does that make sense?

If you set the leads according to the number on mag and matched that to a cylinder number, according to the chart above 2 cylinders will be ok (#1 and #3) and with clever inversion 2 more may work (#5 and #2), that leaves 2 cylinders "cold"....guess which 2? #'s 4 and 6! Take a look at let us know.
Remember though....#1 is the furthest from the prop. This numbering may sound silly but we have to remember, unlike cars, these engine manufactures bought the magnetos from people like Bendix, or Bosch, or Splitdorf. Those manufacturers would take their basic design and interface it to the engine. Their 6 cylinder mag could have been used on any six cylinder engine with any firing order....they didn't care whose six it was going on. So they provided numbers to tell the installer which LEAD was firing.....it is up to the installer to mix and match that LEAD to the proper CYLINDER.

Last edited by Wheels up on Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[HELLDIVERS]

Hi,
If you have good compression on all cylinders @ T.D.C. its most likely a ignition problem. Did you undue the lead wires at the mag? If your compression readings are good cyl condition should not be in question.

Thanks Mike

[Old Shep]

I'm thinking Wheels Up has hit upon our problem. #4 and #6 are definitely "dead" with no evidence at all that they've ever fired since they were installed last week.

We shall continue to continue tomorrow: today is Christmas shopping day.

Old Shep