Airsho pics

doorstop · **Joined:** Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:32 pm **Posts:** 17

MX304,
The Polikarpov is not relegated to static display permanently. It was on display at AIRSHO, as Mrs. Reiss had never seen the complete exhibit. The Fairey Swordfish was also donated by Mrs. Reiss. It was a project started by Col Bob Reiss but not completed before he passed away. The Swordfish has been restored as a static exhibit only.

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:25 pm

Bill Greenwood wrote:

James, I wonder if you are at Midland and have ever seen the Martlet in person. Not counting the authenticity queston, when I see the plane, my first impression is not that it is ratty paint; I've stood next to the plane and it looked good to me. Maybe I do not have as critical an eye as you do, I have only be around warbirds and a CAF member for 25 years. I am all for using an authentic paint scheme when you can, such as when a plane needs repainting, and certainly in the Smitsonian or AF museum. Are you a CAF member, have you offered you services to find schemes for anything they need? When I had my plane painted, I did research and tried to make it authentic, not counting the fact that it represents when it was built as a single seat high altitude day fighter, rather than the airsick green of the Irish Air Corp. The red spinner is from the IAC service the rest from RAF, but I am sure some partof it is not exact. Many people say it looks good. Finally you are of course entitled to an opinion. It has more impact if you offered CAF a sponsorship to paint something that needs it. Money is never equal to the demands.

Hi Bill,
Did you read my post? As Chad's shown, there's a big difference between a basically accurate scheme and this 'car-paint special'.

I've yet to make it to Midland, but I have seen the aircraft at Oshkosh; near another Wildcat that was recovered from Lake Mitchigan, and not painted in General Motors bright blue.

No-one's said the paint's 'ratty'; its well applied, just the wrong colo(u)rs (by a looong way) pattern, sheen and so forth.

Numerous capitalists here have been quick to promote the benefits of private enterprise and the shortcomings of 'Gubment' organisations. On that basis, and in general terms anyway, I'd hope the CAF would aim to achieve accuracy and authenticity in it's Airsho, restorations and schemes.

For the record, no I'm not a CAF member. I thought we'd discussed the 'put up ot shut up' aspect. As that's important to some, I did help the CAF member exploring the possibility of restoring the Swordfish to fly, by pointing in the right directions to obtain or overhaul an airworthy Pegasus. Pity that's apparently a bust. As an aviation writer, I'll happily help anyone who asks, or anyone who discusses something on WIX to the limit of my ability, and instead of revenue-earning writing time. More fool me.

I also think your Spitfire looks very nice - not 100% accurate, but few schemes are.

Finally, I remain amazed that a ten minute 'research' effort can be so stoutly defended. Truly, the Emperor's new clothes.

Regards,

mjanovec · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:32 pm

JDK wrote:

Regarding the Wildcat... Excuses, excuses.

I wonder if anyone would accept such poor excuses for an equivalent lack of effort in maintenance or flying safety?

A paint scheme is, ultimately, a question of aesthetics or historical accuracy. Proper maintenance and safety is matter of life and death. To tie the two together to make your argument is pretty weak, in my opinion.

One has a right to not like a paint scheme...and I personally don't like the scheme on this Wildcat either. But it's ultimately up to its owners to decide how to paint it. As far as I'm concerned, if a warbird owner wants to paint his bird in shocking pink because he likes that color, that's a good-enough excuse...because it is his wallet that ultimately gives him the freedom to do so. I might not like it, but I completely respect whatever reasons they may have for painting their bird any way they that pleases them.

Instead of being critical of those who don't have historically accurate paint schemes, I think it would be much more constructive to heap praise and attention upon those owners who do have historically accurate paint schemes. If we pay more attention to those birds with accurate paint, it may serve as motivation to other warbird owners to follow those examples.

Complaining about a paint scheme only makes us look like, well, a bunch of complainers.

Chad Veich · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:22 pm

mjanovec wrote:

One has a right to not like a paint scheme...and I personally don't like the scheme on this Wildcat either. But it's ultimately up to its owners to decide how to paint it. As far as I'm concerned, if a warbird owner wants to paint his bird in shocking pink because he likes that color, that's a good-enough excuse...because it is his wallet that ultimately gives him the freedom to do so. I might not like it, but I completely respect whatever reasons they may have for painting their bird any way they that pleases them.

I agree totally, the difference here being that in previous discussions there has been a weak attempt by some involved to portray the paint job as authentic. If the guy paying the bills would have simply stated "I painted it the way I liked it" then I don't think there would have been near as much discussion about the whole thing. As a point of interest, and to highlight the lack of research done prior to painting, the fin flash on the Wildcat was originally painted with the colo(u)rs reversed! I think they have fixed that now.

mjanovec wrote:

Instead of being critical of those who don't have historically accurate paint schemes, I think it would be much more constructive to heap praise and attention upon those owners who do have historically accurate paint schemes. If we pay more attention to those birds with accurate paint, it may serve as motivation to other warbird owners to follow those examples.

Visit the Flypast forum once in a while and I think you will see this in action. Though there is certainly much said when a paint job is done wrong there is also a great deal of fuss made when somebody gets it right.

mjanovec wrote:

Complaining about a paint scheme only makes us look like, well, a bunch of complainers.

I guess I don't see where having, and airing, an opinion is complaining. There are a great number of folks who are more than willing to donate their time to help with historical research, even to the point of creating accurate stencils for things like roundels and squadron codes. If an owner is interested in such things it would not take long to discover who these folks are. A simple post here or on the Flypast board would yield almost immediate results.

Chris · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:35 pm

I've got a ton of pics and i'll post little by little. By the way, I had Barbeque dinner with Bill Greenwood and his son. Thanks for the company Bill. Also had a nice discussion regarding everything FAC with Karen aka O2lady. Didn't get the chance to thank you personally Gary but Ol 927 looks spectacular. AND, I don't care how "authentic" a particlular paint scheme or squadron markings may be, I'm not the one footin' the bill so I just appreciate the effort people make with their restorations and the fact that they put a tremendous amount of money into keeping their planes in the air and displaying them at airshows around the country. Kudos to all you guys and ladies out there who do this so the rest of us have something to enjoy.
IMG]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c91/b25guy/P9290045.jpg[/IMG]
Mosquito T-6 with underwing racks. Ilike it!!!

Mizzou wing TBM. Very nice

Bills pride and joy

CAF Corsair, sure looks better now than it did at Williams

Erics cannon installation. SWEET

SoCal Wing Hellcat

SB2C. Great airshow performer along with TBM's

The price keeps coming down

Great to see Jason Somes out there with the Zero

My favorite fighter along with the Corsair. Sorry Mustang guys

Great display during the Vietnam segment

I LIKE IT!!!!!!!!!

I transported the wings and other parts up to QG aviation in Ft Collins. It is amazing what Ray Middleton has been able to do with this plane.
More coming later. Photobucket is slow and I'm getting hungry!!!!!

Old Shep · **Joined:** Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:49 pm **Posts:** 219

Since the Wildcat/Martlet scheme is such a hot topic...and I weighed in earlier, perhaps too obliquely....When a unit wishes to repaint a CAF airplane, the Maintenance Committee must pass on whether the paint job is reasonably authentic. If so, permission is granted. The key here is "reasonably." Every plastic model builder (or RC scale fan like Chad) knows instantly that the paint scheme on the Wildcat is wrong. However, in the opinion of those on the CAF Maintenance Committee it was reasonably OK, and the man who had given buckets of money and airplanes to the CAF wanted it in those colors. When it came out of the paint shop I pointed out all of the things that James is all hot about, but I was just another Colonel at that time. Since then, I've become a bit more vocal and a bit more involved, and I don't think what happened to the Wildcat will happen again. No guarantees, because money still plays a huge role in things, but my sense is that we are past things like the Wildcat.
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play? (The thread was about Airsho, after all...)
Old Shep

ebramhall · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:28 pm

Here are a few of mine. I too am slowly getting through all my photos and getting them uploaded.

--Eric

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:34 pm

Taylor, how'd you break the Cub? It's only got a dozen or so moving parts!

vg-photo · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:46 am

Nice shots guys!

Taylor Stevenson · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:08 am

Bill, We dont really know yet! I saw some discoloration in the paint on the cowling and we thought it was the gasket around the stack attachment point, so we replaced it during annual two weeks ago. Saturday, Gary took a look at it and he noticed a small crack (about 1 1/2") at the "T" shaped weld where the stack enters the cowling. Its also discolored on the left side but we didn't see any cracks so it may be the clamp that holds the muffler onto the stack is loose. I'll have to go out there to take the cowling off one of these next weekends. All-in-all, nothing big, but I'd like to get it fixed so I dont asphyxiate! :shock:

Chad Veich · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:18 am

Old Shep wrote:

However, in the opinion of those on the CAF Maintenance Committee it was reasonably OK, and the man who had given buckets of money and airplanes to the CAF wanted it in those colors.

That's all the reason and explanation needed. Though I would much prefer it to be in a more accurate scheme I certainly would not advocate looking a gift horse in the mouth if it means better care for the airplane. Paint jobs can (and will) change obviously. And Old Shep is right, this thread started out to be about "Airsho" and the pics posted are excellent. Thanks to those who have posted them, it looks like it was a great show despite being on the same weekend as GML.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:30 am

me109me109 wrote:

Bill, We dont really know yet! I saw some discoloration in the paint on the cowling and we thought it was the gasket around the stack attachment point, so we replaced it during annual two weeks ago. Saturday, Gary took a look at it and he noticed a small crack (about 1 1/2") at the "T" shaped weld where the stack enters the cowling. Its also discolored on the left side but we didn't see any cracks so it may be the clamp that holds the muffler onto the stack is loose. I'll have to go out there to take the cowling off one of these next weekends. All-in-all, nothing big, but I'd like to get it fixed so I dont asphyxiate! :shock:

That's a good reason man.

JDK · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:50 am

I've tried to pick up the discussion on the Wildcat / Martlet and take it to a new thread here: http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... hp?t=16242

Cheers,

dj51d · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:17 pm

ebramhall wrote:

Nice photos! I have to make it down to Midland one of these years.

Did the Trojan Horseman fly their routine in the show?

Taylor Stevenson · **Posted:** Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:07 pm

yup they did their act. great show!

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