fire bombers

[B-29 Super Fort]

Where is the lake where the Mars photographed at?

[CAPFlyer]

The pictures were taken at Sproat Lake, Vancouver Island, British Columbia

[warbirdcrew]

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187756

Anyone know anything about the Albatross that is in the pictures? I have never seen that one before.

[Larry Kraus]

Nathan,the short answer on using the PB4Y's would be no.After the H&P auction,the rumor is that a number of serious cracks have been found in the wing spars.Maybe Matt or one of the other guys that are more familiar with these airplanes can add detail.At any rate,the Feds aren't contracting any large tankers other than Aero Union's P-3's and Neptune's P-2's.These operators came up with somewhat tenuous paperwork from Lockheed concerning airframe life that more or less satsfied the contracting officer.

I understand that the Fed contracts will be rebid for next year and the rumor is that the Airframe Life Limit that was demaded by the Feds in order to eliminate all tankers except for P-2's and P-3's will be dropped.This is a little late,as all of the operators that had competing airframes such as DC-4's have been driven out of business.The civilian C-130A's won't be considered because of the bad P.R. following the endless replays of the Tanker 130 accident on national television.The latest rumor concerning the MAFFS program is that the Guard C-130's won't be activated this year mainly because somebody in fire management finally figured out the actual cost of those aircraft.However,MAFFS might still show up before the year is over as the program still has support in Washington,D.C.

[flyboyid]

Both P-2 and P-3 have been flying here in Boise (even some SEATs). I sure miss the days when the tanker base had 3-4, and on busy years, upwards of 8 large tankers on the ramp. Used to just grab a sack lunch and go watch the operations for hours. Sadly the guys next door to the base (NIFC) have largely eliminated that summer time tradition. Once I was even able to see the KC-97 briefly operate from BOI. As to date, aprox. 1,000,000 acres have burned in Idaho alone this year. Wouldn't it be nice if there were more help from the air...

On another note the Idaho ANG operates C-130. They are directly across the airport from NIFC. Yet (and I could be wrong here) a C-130 unit out of N. Carolina would come in to operate MAFFS. When the IDANG requested that mission (because of proximity) they were denied. Makes sense?

[Cripes]

Both P-2 and P-3 have been flying here in Boise (even some SEATs). I sure miss the days when the tanker base had 3-4, and on busy years, upwards of 8 large tankers on the ramp. Used to just grab a sack lunch and go watch the operations for hours. Sadly the guys next door to the base (NIFC) have largely eliminated that summer time tradition. Once I was even able to see the KC-97 briefly operate from BOI. As to date, aprox. 1,000,000 acres have burned in Idaho alone this year. Wouldn't it be nice if there were more help from the air...

It's a similar sad story up here in the north end. When there were regularly DC-4s, 6's, 7's, P2Vs and PB4Y's, now I'm lucky if I see a Neptune. Most of the time the ramp is occupied by that little ugly Air Tractor that can maybe haul half of what the others could.

[Sril]

Hello

Buffalo Airways in Canada has bought tanker 14 & 15 of Aero Union a couple of years ago; they are DC4 equiped with state of the art RADS dropping systems.They are probably from 1944-45 and we probably stay active for a long time!!!


(sorry, my picture,taken in 2004 didn't had the same state of the art treatment )

They seem to have 4 canso still active
http://www.buffaloairways.com/cansos.htm

[Nathan]

Nice!

According to the Mars book I have, they use R3350-24WAs which are rated at 2500HP.

You may be right, I can't say for sure exactly what the current engines are on the 2 existing Mars aircraft, but below is something I posted back in an earlier thread in March. I think my information was either a book reference or an internet reference - I can't remember. It's conceivable that engines could have been changed or downgraded at some point, but I believe there were several of the last Mars aircraft flown by the Navy in the mid 50s that had the upgraded 3,000 HP R-3350's.

As I understand it, only one Mars, the original JRM-2 was built with P&W R-4360s - all of the other Mars aircraft always had only R-3350s. All of the 4 surviving JRM Mars aircraft operated by the Navy from 1950-56 were equipped with upgraded 3,000 HP R-3350s and these were the same engines used on all of the firebomber airplanes including the existing two surviving aircraft.

[Glen]

So.......................... what is the wet finger in the air thoughts on this Will a Mars ever be released to a Musem or restored back to WW2 colors and configurations ?

[CAPFlyer]

The conversion to R3350's was done as part of the tanker conversion. The R3350 is normally rated at 2500HP. Only the Turbocompound variants are rated at 3000HP.

[Steve Nelson]

Thanks for the info, guys!

SN

[Curtis Block]

What is the breakdown of who got the PB4Ys after H&P closed down and what is their status / pans for the future?
Curtis Block

[RNDMTRS4EVR]

O.K. guys this is what I know of the ex-Aero Union DC-4's that Bufflo got, Both were bought for freighter use and not fire fighting. They were sold without the tanks installed. On the H&P PB4Y2's Gene Powers still has one of them rumored to be tanker #121, one of the Hawkins boys has tanker #126 "I think" the other two were sold at auction, one going to Chino for a restoration the other going to someone down in Arizona for restoration. These were the latest rumors I had heard anyway.
Scott.....

The conversion to R3350's was done as part of the tanker conversion. The R3350 is normally rated at 2500HP. Only the Turbocompound variants are rated at 3000HP.

There seems to be confusion out there in book and internet sources regarding the engines that powered the various Mars aircraft. Some sources suggest that there was only ONE Mars ever built and/or equipped with R-4360 engines: the JRM-2 "Caroline Mars," and that the Navy converted this and the earlier JRM-1s to a "JRM-3" standard with R-3350s upgraded to a maximum of 3,000 HP and with reversible props on the inboard engines. Other sources suggest that the Navy converted all of their remaining Mars aircraft to the "JRM-3" standard with the R-4360 Wasp Majors.

Hopefully the mystery will be clarified at some point. Basically, was there actually just ONE Mars aircraft ever equipped with R-4360s, or were there up to FIVE Mars aircraft eqquipped with R-4360s at one time??