P-51 Mustang Crash at Camarillo Airport - July 2007

[vg-photo]

Mr. East is a great guy. I spoke with him at the Camarillo show a couple of years ago. It is surprising how little time they got in training.

[sdennison]

My father shared many stories of the various fighters he flew and the story was pretty much the same. After the P40 in Texas, every other plane was an instrument orientation session in the cockpit, manual reading, and a pat on the a$$. Go fly her boy!

In addtion, once you were a pilot, it was expected that you could fly nearly anything. In most cases they did, and many fell victim to the powerful fighters and low seat time.

[Dave Fish]

Not the P-51 and these may have been posted before, but two WWII era pilot training films. The one on the F4U does relate to her powerful engine and torque.



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8162002454


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1338098345

[pastrpilot]

John was a friend of mine. He was an excellent pilot with hundreds of hours in complex aircraft. Two years ago, I soloed a Steerman at Camarillo. I started to lose directional control on the ground after landing. What did I do? I added full power and kept her flying. That's the difference between a Steerman and Mustang. I got lucky that day.

[skybolt2003]

john Deacon in Avweb has a column about this:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/pelic ... 755-1.html

[mlenoch]

Good article. Some very good points made. A very useful description for all pilots, warbirds or not.
(I'd argue about the 727 flap thing; flaps were restricted to 30 in the Boeing manual since the mid 70's, to reduce drag and thus power needed in an effort to decrease jet noise at airports.)
VL

[Wheels up]

from Deacon's article.....

(Gone are the days when just about anyone could buy a warbird and go fly without insurance, or with just liability insurance. Hull insurance is now required right along with liability, and I'm told the premiums are roughly 4% of the value.)

Is this true? How is hull required? By regulation or practicality? Educate me!

[Jack Frost]

A WW II 8th Air Force P-38/P-51 pilot, Dewey Franklin, relayed the following to me back in the early 50's.

Dewey had been flying combat for awhile in the P-38 when early one morning, four P-51's landed at his base. The Ops Officer grabbed Dewey and a few others and headed for the mess hall where they grilled the ferry pilots for any knowlege they had of the P-51. Dewey said they didn't have much but they convinced one of pilots to show them what was where in the cockpit and how to start the engine while they were standing on either wing watching. It was short session since a C-47 was waiting to carry them back to the depot at Burtonwood and they had other airplanes to ferry that afternoon.

Dewey's bunch each grabbed a Dash One Flight Manual out of each plane's baggage compartment and while the P-51s were being re-fueled they did a group study of procedures, numbers, etc. The Ops Officer told them he would lead and to just follow him.

On the Ops Officers first two takeoff attempts he went off to the side of the runway but on his third attempt he managed to get it off OK. He radioed back advising not to use any more power than the controls could handle until safely off the ground. Dewey said that he and the other two guys all made at least one excursion off the runway before they got it right. These were all combat-experienced P-38 pilots but had forgotten about the "Torque" on take off since the P-38 didn't have any.

After a few stalls and falls, a little formation work and some 'rat racing'
and a couple of landings, they adjourned to the mess hall for lunch while the aircraft were being fueled and armed. That afternoon they made a fighter sweep over France and got some more "on-the-job training". There was no formal checkout. Dewey finished his combat tour in the P-51 and eventually retired from the USAF.

[Lynn Allen]

Good article. Some very good points made. A very useful description for all pilots, warbirds or not.
(I'd argue about the 727 flap thing; flaps were restricted to 30 in the Boeing manual since the mid 70's, to reduce drag and thus power needed in an effort to decrease jet noise at airports.)
VL

Vlado, what kind of MP do you use in the pattern if you don't mind me asking? Do you use a setting before entering the pattern and then set another one for the pattern?

TIA,

Lynn

[Bill Greenwood]

If my memories serves me right, as taught by Lee, I think 22 inches of MP was the "magic number" for manifold pressure in 51 in the pattern. With gear down, you could then add a notch of flaps at the start of each segment of the pattern, slowing from around 120 base to about 110 final with full flaps, still with 22 inches. As you near the runway as Lee very clearly put it you "squeeze off the power" slowing you to about 100mph. The big flaps are very effective so the final notch allows a little more nose down approach and a little better view than in a Spitfire. I think the 51 manifold pressure gauge goes all the way down in one degree marks to about 15 inches. The Spit power gauge, boost, has nothing below -4lbs and is a smaller dial so it is a little harder to see and set an exact power than the 51. The Spit has better control response, particlarly ailerons at slow speeds, and especially better go around. Sure would like to get some more Mustang time, especially going cross country. It is a shame to see anyone lost in these planes we all love.

[mlenoch]

Lynn....Bill is exactly correct. Thx, Bill!
(Any lower than 22 inches, then the propeller would be driving the engine which is not healthy for the internal components. It would be similar to engine braking that semi-trucks can do. For the Merlin and many big radials, the mechanicals -rings, valves, etc. - can be damaged by this type of power setting.)
VL

[Lynn Allen]

Lynn....Bill is exactly correct. Thx, Bill!
(Any lower than 22 inches, then the propeller would be driving the engine which is not healthy for the internal components. It would be similar to engine braking that semi-trucks can do. For the Merlin and many big radials, the mechanicals -rings, valves, etc. - can be damaged by this type of power setting.)
VL

Thx's to both of you all...

Lynn

[Glenn Wegman]

The only problem with all of that is that you need to check and re-adjust the gear warning horn as it is supposed to be set to sound at 20" and below. 22" may not sound the warning horn as evident on more that one ossasion!

Glenn

[T J Johansen]

from Deacon's article.....

(Gone are the days when just about anyone could buy a warbird and go fly without insurance, or with just liability insurance. Hull insurance is now required right along with liability, and I'm told the premiums are roughly 4% of the value.)

Is this true? How is hull required? By regulation or practicality? Educate me!

I asked a friend of mine who's involved with aircraft sales, and he said hull insurance is not mandatory, unlike liability!

T J

[Dasher]

The only reason I would see Hull as mandatory - if there was a lien on the airplane.