A long lost XB-35 “Flying Wing” mockup engine?
Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:47 pm
For all of you motor heads out there, you’re going to love this!
Pictured below is a recent acquisition of mine, and is probably the oddest and most unique piece of aero “junque” I’ve ever seen. What you’re looking at is a factory mockup of a Continental XO-1430-3 engine. It is a liquid cooled “flat 12” opposed piston engine. It is constructed primarily of wood, and the detail is absolutely incredible for this type of construction. It is also quite a massive engine, measuring over 6ft long by 4ft wide, and standing nearly 2ft tall on the mounts. Truly a beast!
I’ve been trying to determine exactly what this engine was conceived for, and I believe it MIGHT have been used in a XB-35 mockup? Any Northrop guys out there? I found a very old tag attached to the engine, part of which is missing, but by “filling in the blanks” it says in part “…..For Wooden Mockup Of Flying Wing”
I’ve been in touch with a Mr. Graham White who just so happens to own a Continental IV-1430 engine (one of only a handful known to survive, and the only one still operational) Graham was very helpful with my query into the XO-1430, but he was just as mystified by it as I am. He himself had never heard of an XO-1430 before either, and believed my example to be the only one to exist. Still more perplexing was the possible Northrop connection indicated by the tag attached to the engine.
Graham's IV-1430 can be seen here:
http://www.enginehistory.org/iv-1430.htm
Graham also indicated that NASM actually has manuals for the IV-1430, and that they could possibly have something on the XO-1430. I do intend to contact them about this, but I’m still waiting to hear back from them with regards to some XB-29 stuff, so in the meantime I’m hoping a WIXer out there might be able to help me out w/ this beast! The only thing I’ve found on the net about the XO is as follows:
"The US Army at McCook Field (later at Wright Field) began cylinder research in 1929 under the direction of S.D. Heron and others. By 1931, a twelve cylinder, V-12 liquid-cooled engine with {4.625 / 5.0 / 1008.0} had been developed. In 1934, the US Army increased the cylinder size to 1425 cu. in. for a V-12; this was redesigned further into the OL-1430 and tested in 1938. The motivation for a high-power HOAE was the promise shown for low-drag, in-wing installation, but this soon was seen as impractical (see, also, the Lycoming OL-1230). Later, the OL-1430 was redesigned into the Continental IV-1430, which was an inverted V-12.
12cyl; O-1430-1; 1150hp@3150rpm; 1938-1941; Wt = 1300#; TC = none.
Supercharged and geared to 0.455 or 0.556.
Aerofiles.com; AMC; BGE; BGP.
Applications: None found.
12cyl; XO-1430-3; 1500hp@3150rpm; 1938-1941; Wt = 1600#; TC = none.
Supercharged and geared to 0.336.
Aerofiles.com; AMC; BGE; BGP.
Applications: None found.
http://home.adelphia.net/~aeroengine/Continental2.html
I also found the following mentioned with regards to the XB-35:
“In November, 1941, two XB-35 prototypes were ordered by the Army Air Force. Preliminary design work began on the XB-35 early in 1942, and on July 5th of that year the mock-up Board from Wright Field inspected a full size wood mock-up of the centre section and a portion of the left wing.”
http://www.century-of-flight.freeola.com/Aviation%20history/evolution%20of%20technology/Northrop.htm
While the XB-35 ultimately used the -4360, there is no mention to the type of engine(s) employed in the partial mockup from 1942. This, coupled with the tag I found attached to the engine raises the question; could my XO-1430 have been used in this mockup? Can anyone confirm what type of engine was used in the mockup from ’42?
If anyone out there has any additional info on this engine, please post it here or e-mail me
Pictured below is a recent acquisition of mine, and is probably the oddest and most unique piece of aero “junque” I’ve ever seen. What you’re looking at is a factory mockup of a Continental XO-1430-3 engine. It is a liquid cooled “flat 12” opposed piston engine. It is constructed primarily of wood, and the detail is absolutely incredible for this type of construction. It is also quite a massive engine, measuring over 6ft long by 4ft wide, and standing nearly 2ft tall on the mounts. Truly a beast!
I’ve been trying to determine exactly what this engine was conceived for, and I believe it MIGHT have been used in a XB-35 mockup? Any Northrop guys out there? I found a very old tag attached to the engine, part of which is missing, but by “filling in the blanks” it says in part “…..For Wooden Mockup Of Flying Wing”
I’ve been in touch with a Mr. Graham White who just so happens to own a Continental IV-1430 engine (one of only a handful known to survive, and the only one still operational) Graham was very helpful with my query into the XO-1430, but he was just as mystified by it as I am. He himself had never heard of an XO-1430 before either, and believed my example to be the only one to exist. Still more perplexing was the possible Northrop connection indicated by the tag attached to the engine.
Graham's IV-1430 can be seen here:
http://www.enginehistory.org/iv-1430.htm
Graham also indicated that NASM actually has manuals for the IV-1430, and that they could possibly have something on the XO-1430. I do intend to contact them about this, but I’m still waiting to hear back from them with regards to some XB-29 stuff, so in the meantime I’m hoping a WIXer out there might be able to help me out w/ this beast! The only thing I’ve found on the net about the XO is as follows:
"The US Army at McCook Field (later at Wright Field) began cylinder research in 1929 under the direction of S.D. Heron and others. By 1931, a twelve cylinder, V-12 liquid-cooled engine with {4.625 / 5.0 / 1008.0} had been developed. In 1934, the US Army increased the cylinder size to 1425 cu. in. for a V-12; this was redesigned further into the OL-1430 and tested in 1938. The motivation for a high-power HOAE was the promise shown for low-drag, in-wing installation, but this soon was seen as impractical (see, also, the Lycoming OL-1230). Later, the OL-1430 was redesigned into the Continental IV-1430, which was an inverted V-12.
12cyl; O-1430-1; 1150hp@3150rpm; 1938-1941; Wt = 1300#; TC = none.
Supercharged and geared to 0.455 or 0.556.
Aerofiles.com; AMC; BGE; BGP.
Applications: None found.
12cyl; XO-1430-3; 1500hp@3150rpm; 1938-1941; Wt = 1600#; TC = none.
Supercharged and geared to 0.336.
Aerofiles.com; AMC; BGE; BGP.
Applications: None found.
http://home.adelphia.net/~aeroengine/Continental2.html
I also found the following mentioned with regards to the XB-35:
“In November, 1941, two XB-35 prototypes were ordered by the Army Air Force. Preliminary design work began on the XB-35 early in 1942, and on July 5th of that year the mock-up Board from Wright Field inspected a full size wood mock-up of the centre section and a portion of the left wing.”
http://www.century-of-flight.freeola.com/Aviation%20history/evolution%20of%20technology/Northrop.htm
While the XB-35 ultimately used the -4360, there is no mention to the type of engine(s) employed in the partial mockup from 1942. This, coupled with the tag I found attached to the engine raises the question; could my XO-1430 have been used in this mockup? Can anyone confirm what type of engine was used in the mockup from ’42?
If anyone out there has any additional info on this engine, please post it here or e-mail me
Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:20 pm
Trevor, amazing find!
Even though I do not know the origin of this mock up engine, it is still a historically significant piece
!
Even though I do not know the origin of this mock up engine, it is still a historically significant piece
!
Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:24 pm
Wow! That thing is insane! I can only imagine what the sound could have been out of that thing if it ever got to the running stage! I have heard the Flat Porsche engines run a few times and they are wicked, this thing would have been king!
Cool find, hope someone knows what it is!
Cool find, hope someone knows what it is!
Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:33 pm
Man, some real craftsmen worked on creating that. If wooden engines could fly that one certainly "wood" have back in the 40s! 
Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:18 pm
Where in the world did ya find that baby? 
Awsome.
Awsome.
Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:23 am
that truely is a work of art.
please tell us the story of how it survived and came to end up with you.
please tell us the story of how it survived and came to end up with you.
Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:40 am
Too cool Trev...you seem to have a nack for sniffing out rare and hard to find aviation "goodies".
John
John
Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:16 am
We had four or five of those out here on the hill. Since we didn't know what they were, we just threw them away. 
Okay, okay, just kidding. I'd love to be able to come up with some of that stuff you end up finding, Trevor. Nice grab with that prototype!
Gary
Okay, okay, just kidding. I'd love to be able to come up with some of that stuff you end up finding, Trevor. Nice grab with that prototype!
Gary
Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:34 pm
I checked on the Flying Wing book and no mention of the flat engine made. There is considerable talk about the problems of the 4360 gestation, so it seems resonable that they may have considered an alternate should the problems with the 4360 become insurmountable.
Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:18 pm
Found mention of a Continental O-1430 in an article on Hyper Engines on Wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper_engine
Todd
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper_engine
Todd
MOCKUP
Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:42 pm
The horsepower rating of 1250 on the tag would seem too low to have anything to do with the XB-35. Possibly one of the earlier test aircraft like the N9M?
Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:10 pm
Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:16 pm
John & Gary,
Yeah I do seem to have pretty good luck finding this oddball stuff! My motto is "If they made it, I can find it" Speaking of which John, did I tell you about that ball turret I found in that old timers barn a couple weeks back? He used it to store chicken feed in, worked pretty good actually 
Here's my most recent prize, a DHC C-7 Caribou! "389" is an actual Air America ship, and once I learned this I just had to save her...or at least the first 20ft or so, anyway! When I get around to it, I'll be posting pics of the recovery ala Gary style. This is how she looked earlier today as I was leaving for the day...(pardon the "crime scene" tape!)
As for the XO, I found it buried up in a storage building while sniffing out some other parts. Suffice to say the former owner decided they would rather have the free space instead of this engine, and that's when I got it. I didnt have a clue as to what it went to (and still dont!), but I recognized it as being something unique & special so I just had to have it!
Yeah I do seem to have pretty good luck finding this oddball stuff! My motto is "If they made it, I can find it"
Speaking of which John, did I tell you about that ball turret I found in that old timers barn a couple weeks back? He used it to store chicken feed in, worked pretty good actually
Here's my most recent prize, a DHC C-7 Caribou! "389" is an actual Air America ship, and once I learned this I just had to save her...or at least the first 20ft or so, anyway! When I get around to it, I'll be posting pics of the recovery ala Gary style. This is how she looked earlier today as I was leaving for the day...(pardon the "crime scene" tape!)
As for the XO, I found it buried up in a storage building while sniffing out some other parts. Suffice to say the former owner decided they would rather have the free space instead of this engine, and that's when I got it. I didnt have a clue as to what it went to (and still dont!), but I recognized it as being something unique & special so I just had to have it!
Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:56 pm
The N9M was built to run the Franklins. The XP-56 used the R2800.
The XB-35 used the 4360s and was supposed to ultimately switch over to the Northrop Turbodyne turboprop. A 1250 horsepower engine would never have been considered for the 172 ft Wing.
Maybe Continental built it on speculation that John Northrop would want to build a wing that would need a powerplant of this nature ?
The XB-35 used the 4360s and was supposed to ultimately switch over to the Northrop Turbodyne turboprop. A 1250 horsepower engine would never have been considered for the 172 ft Wing.
Maybe Continental built it on speculation that John Northrop would want to build a wing that would need a powerplant of this nature ?