Warbird Information Exchange

Did anyone see the clip about the couple from MA and their unruly, temper-tantrum throwing child who were booted from an Air Tran flight out of Orlando?????

It's about time! I'm so sick of out-of-control children on flights and parents who do nothing about it!!!! Never mind the kids, I'd like to slap the parents!

The only thing I don't agree with is that they reimbursed the parents the cost of the three tix AND gave them vouchers for free future flights.....

The parents, of course, are blaming Air Tran........

I, for one, would pay extra -- a lot extra -- for a guaranteed "no children on board" flight!

OK, rant over.

Now you done It!!! The wife yells at me all the time about yelling at other peoples kids..the parents get involved and I give them alot of the old navy language and they always get that scared look and run. The good lord made the mistake of making me a mack truck and I use it to my advantage! Once I doted a old dads I. I didn't stick around for the drawing I hate those little spoiled bastereds and I refuse to put up with the inconvience from breeders! Don't want no short people round here!

I saw the tv quick report, really don't know any details. I tend to be on the kid's side. First, did she have a problem with her ears that was causing her alot of pain. I have seen congested babies really suffer from this. Were the parents or the airline considerate, or were there long delays in a stuffy cabin? Did the parents bring an already tired or hungry child on board with nothing to occupy their interest? In any case, since the airline denied them the flight refunding the fare was the right thing to do. I have seen alot of adults with worse manners than many children, but then I like children. Sort of like old airplanes, great at their best, but may need a lot of care.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Children are like old airplanes, They belch, leak and whine, You have to bust knuckels to get them to work and they always need something. Plus they are expensive!.

Kids are the least of my problem when I fly the skeds. My gripes when I cross the pond?

1. Seat pitch.

2. The guy in front who reclines the seat violently, slamming my laptop into my chest.

3. The guy in back of who grabs my seat as a crutch every time he needs a potty break.

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It is for all of the reasons (and the new TSA requirements) I decide not to fly commercial air travel anymore unless I absolutely have to. The hassle just isn't worth it.

John

I worked for a local airline, and I think I saw it all. I once saw a passenger grab a gate agent by the throat! It was becasue the plane was broken, and she gave them the only info that she knew. We pulled the passenger aside and told him in a nice way that if he touched another employee again, we were going to feed him to an engine. He was very nice for the rest of his stay. As for this case, I find that parents are usually to blame. First off , if your kids is that small, why in the hell are you flying? Unless it is an emergency, you shouldn't be taking them up there.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Believe or not, once upon a time in the past riding on an airline was even a pleasure. People showered, even wore clean clothes instead of looking like the 10 most wanted list. The stewardess was better looking than Earnest Borgnine, and might even be friendly. A very long time ago some airlines like Braniff actually had food, you know the stuff you'd get if you went into a real restaurant and ordered. There was even a time when airlines were profitable and people liked their jobs. And there really was once before TSA, a time when you could go to the airlport and be treated like a customer instead of a criminal.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Ah, the good old days. That was back when people were polite and courteous, and adults AND children knew how to behave properly.

I always thought it was such a joke how the airlines claim to make no money. if that was the case, they wouldn't be flying.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Flying with a young child can be very stressful. The modern airline system almost seems calculated to get them upset, what with the multi-hour ordeal they have gone through even before departure and the way all passengers are treated these days. The first few times they act up, the parents are horrified, but the options for calming them down are pretty limited given the basic parameters of being stuck in a seat for hours.

After a while, parents who fly frequently with their children learn to do their best and expect reasonable accommodations from other passengers. After all, we were all annoying brats once, and a lot of us still are. I'm not sure if adults or children these days are any less well behaved than they used to be, but one thing that I think has changed is that people seem to think they are entitled never to be annoyed or disturbed by others, even when they have to occupy a small space like an airplane or train with a large number of them. The idea of living in a "society" seems to escape some folks. All the time, I see people giving others a hard time about things like whining (but not really wild) kids, cell phone conversations at normal speaking volume, or even face-to-face conversations on trains and such, as if they had some right not to endure any sight, sound, or smell that is unpleasant to them. Those people really should travel in their own cars and by private jet.

The two overriding principles I've learned in flying as a parent is (1) to remember that a child has 100% of the rights of any adult and that his needs, wants and problems, however immature they seem, are as real and deserving of respect as any of ours; and (2) fly JetBlue whenever possible. The TVs at every seat and the seats spaced far enough that a 3-year-old with his belt buckled can twitch without kicking the seat in front of him and being scolded for it make for a huge difference in the happiness and behavior of the kid.

August

Bottom line is the FARs state every child 2 yrs old and above must have a seat belt on for takeoff and landing and this kid's parents couldn't keep their kid buckled up (I don't recall being bossed around by my kids when they were three). As a pilot for a major airline, I can confirm air carriers can't afford to be bending the FARs, so this crew had a choice...increase the delay for the other 112 passengers beyond the 15 minutes they were already late for departure and wait on the kid to calm down or remove them. Perhaps the "right" choice for the flight crew depends if your a parent, or one of the other 112. Perhaps the parents of the tantrum throwing kid need to be enlightened about being members of a society, the possibility that it's not all about them just because they can't control a three year old...and this Air Tran jet isn't their private charter, it's scheduled mass transportation. A packed airline jet is a microcosm of "society" and I agree with August that the level of selfishness is at an all-time high--ask any flight attendant. While I agree the air travel experience is cr*p, the travelling public has gotten what they and the politicians have asked for: affordable air transportation for the masses--Greyhounds with wings. As a kid in the late '70s, my mother scolded my siblings and I for ingratitude during a ski trip and said my father had spent over $2000 flying the six of us to Colorado and we better straighten up and fly right if we ever wanted to see Aspen again. Inflation adjust $2000 in 1978 to fly six people and it's closer to how much today? $6000? $8000? It's relatively cheap to fly today. As for JetBlue, their Wall Street honeymoon is over. In the next four or five years some analysts are predicting they'll join Braniff on the airline scrap heap since their A320 deferred payments and free maintenance warranties with Airbus are rapidly expiring (radical concept--they're now paying for their planes & maintenance) and their being trounced on what they thought would be their high-profit routes. Proof you can't get something for nothing forever (except their CEO who cashed out his JetBlue stock near it's peak...imagine that).

There should be a requirement that Breeders attend Child devlopment 20 or 30 credit hours ( A year) before they have a kid.. Then they should get a get a license to reproduce.. Further there should be a limit on how many they can have.. This world is overrun with people!

send the rug rats baggage class..... in the cargo hold with the dogs & cats!!

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

I wonder if the parents use a car seat for their daughter and have since she was an infant. If so she should be used to it, but I don't know the details or the circumstances. I always took an infant seat on the plane for my children. It's safer and the extra height gives little ones a better chance to see out the window. Once, years ago, a stew did not want us to use the car seat, but to hold the child. I pointed out that the child deserved a seat belt just like the stew. Finally the capt okd it, for which I am grateful. Now they don't give you a hard time. The airlines, especially the majors have a good safety record, and if you get the '
"chosen one" fare, the flight can be cheap, but with a few exceptions it is not the friendly and pleasant experience it once was.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK