Wanted: B-17 parts - project - or trade for P-40N-5 project

Digger · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:41 am

Looking for B-17 parts, anything considered and if you have something significant we have a P-40N-5 project becoming available in the next month or two so would consider a trade ie P-40 project for B-17 parts / project. The P-40 is a 49th FG veteran. If you want to sell or are interested in a trade we can be contacted at hawks7@reevers.com.au for exchange of details and conditions for trade and or sale.

Only serious sellers or traders please. All images are copyright protected and the same will be assumed on any images received.

Peter Smythe

Lightning · **Joined:** Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:06 pm **Posts:** 424

Howdy Peter

What is the Serial Number and history of this ship?
Where was this recovered from or is it an ID with collected parts?

Thanks

Lightning

Digger · **Posted:** Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:51 am

Just posted details of its history on the main page looking for more pics of a/c and more info on the Pilot.

Its a pretty good project with one undercart leg still attached to a large section of wing, engine bearers, one side cowling, remains of the other wing, empenage from about 2 foot past the locker door towards the tail. Unfortunately no feathers ie tailplane, rudder elevators etc. They've been removed and used elsewhere. Project was purchased from a private collector in Far North Queensland (Townsville) who said he purchased it from a scrap dealer in the late 60's to early 70's. I purchased about half a semi load of stuff when I was collecting for P-39, so at that time I had no interest in the P-40 bits. I had to sell everything due to bad health but have remained on the team as a researcher. But here is the ducks guts of it:

[i]the pilot was lt Dan Davids. After he force landed at Hopoi on 24 Oct 1943 he was rescued by an L-5 liaison aircraft and taken to POM then shipped back to the USA due to injuries. Years later Lt Davids changed his surname to Rowan and bacame a famous US television personality ie Rowan and Marin's Laugh with Goldie Hawn et al.

he shot down a zeke and was then pursued by at least 3 other Japanese a/c that caused significant damage to his mount. He only managed to evade them by flying Katheen II through a narrow opening in a Mountain ridge line which caused the pursuing enemy a/c to become unsettled resulting in one crashing into the mountain's side.[/i]

hope this helps

Peter

Lightning · **Joined:** Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:06 pm **Posts:** 424

Howdy Peter

Is there anything left of the forward fuselage ?

Thanks

Lightning

Digger · **Posted:** Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:08 am

nothing substantial, bits of firewall and some station remains but the scrappers did a good job ripping it into sections to be carried I guess. I think there is an armour plate - need to check that and some new items I've picked up like canopy crank, quarter window. The canopy is there but I have that being asessed for rebuild. The air intake ducts are there.

If you give me an email address I can send some pics. write to hawks7@reevers.com.au

cheers

Cherrybomber13 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:39 am

Digger,
Are you considering a flying restoration or is this a static project?

Digger · **Posted:** Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:55 am

Hi

I assume you mean the B-17.
Well, at this stage reality must play a part so I should say I want a static at first and depending on how that goes perhaps working towards a flying example.
I've done the calculations on it and the availability of parts / wrecks / spares etc and I can see perhaps a syndicate growing out of this to enable a flying example resides here in Australia. I have several wrecks here to consider but will keep that quiet for now as there is very little interest in the type, but once the word gets out about the location and remains of a wreck, then every gold digger and his dog goes looking for it.

hope this answers the question.

Peter
PS nice website re the Corsair. do you know about the Corsair at Classic jets Fighetr museum, check it on the web.

43-2195 · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2012 11:02 pm

Peter, Just going from memory, But didn't Lt Davids forceland on a sandbar of the Waffir River? This is not near Hopoi(which is on the coast between Lae and Finchaven). It's actually the next river junction upstream from the Watut River and the Markham River, in the Markham Valley. It's the same River(Waffir) that Lt Thorvaldson forcelanded next to(although more succesfully than Lt david). I visited and photgraphed Thorvaldson's P-40(with Richard Leahy) in the 1990's prior to it's recovery and restoration to flying condition by Precision aerospace and Mike Spaulding(the P-40 is now flying out of Mareeba,QLD). I never saw David's P-40 at the time of my visit and local villagers were not aware of another wrecksite in the vicinity(a P-47 in the mountains some miles west was the only other crashsite they knew of, Richard had already visited it). I believed then as I do now that the Waffir River had covered the wreck with sedimentry gravel over the intervening years. This isn't as far fetched as it seems, as the Markham and Watut Rivers have, since 1945 covered over a B-25, a P-38 and a P-39. we have wartime and post war pics of the crash sites and today the rivers have erroded away the banks and covered the wrecks. Amazing stuff.
Hope you get a successful outcome with the sale/swap of the project. I would like to think and airworthy P-40 with wartime provenance might value close to USD$3,000,000. But as you know, I am biased with a self interest.

Cheers :drink3:

PS There is a famous wartime photo of a P-40 that did forcelend at Hopoi and was covered with palm fronds to hid it from the enemy. Cant recall the details, but it is on www.pacificwrecks.com

Digger · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2012 11:33 pm

Thanks for that, the feedback I have from research ov the event includes the recovery of Davids by the L-4 pilot who stated "landing adjacent to the wreck was easy and almost necessary as Lt Davids had lost a lot of blood and was unable to walk unaided due to broken bones and other injuries". It seems that the aircraft was supposed to have been burnt - not sure who by - but certainly the oil tank and its assembly show signs of exposure to heat, even the stainless firewall has been discoloured by heat and this could explain why I have the partial remains of one side. The number 4949 appears on the aircraft in handwriting apparently common practice for ground crews who worked on several aircraft at a time. I also have a plate identifying it as 4949 via its construction number which is repeated inside a section of the wing I have.

I am familiar with the photo of the aircraft with the palms covering it and one must ask why that would be done, the answer being to recover the aircraft for repairs or converstion and certainly why cover an aircraft that had, it seems, been partially burnt. I'm also familiar with the area and have searched via commercial satelite images (not GE) and can find no trace of the aircraft insitu. Overlaying of wartime images to current images confirms no aircraft at the alleged crash site.

Its is plausable that the aircraft was recvered and converted for parts but that would not explain why 4949 appears over sevral places. Its more likely it was recovered either soon after the crash and then dumped after being stripped or the scrappers got to it and paid for it to be removed, Im not 100% sure on what occured after the crash. Many thanks Keith for the information and I will take it into consideration and perhaps revisit the hypothesis again, but as you know with P-38G US serial 43-2195 it ended up being hacked up by locals and carried off, with the the son of a local white farmer collecting its remains or so I've been told.

Peter

43-2195 · **Posted:** Sun May 06, 2012 9:33 am

Peter, I agree with you about the provenance, I just have David down at Waffir, not Hopoi. I doubt it would have been converted to parts during the war, too remote, Thorvaldson's wasn't.

Digger · **Posted:** Mon May 07, 2012 1:08 am

I agree, it was too remote and too badly damaged to recover, so thats why I've gone with the hacked up version. As a side issue I purchased that pic of the palm covered P-40 from the AWM a few years back. A close examination shows the aircraft to be an E model and not a long tailed N. There are two problems with "official" records. Most were completed sometime after the event and I hope no one takes offence by this, but the yanks just could not navigate and hence the problem in locating aircrat today. Records say its in this valley and reality shows its 20 miles away, probably because one river system looks like the next and so on.

I know of a great story where Govt officials took family to the 'known' wreck site of their son during WW2 only to see another wreck on their flight home. They decided to land and take some pics etc and to their horror / surprise the tail markings matched that of the aircraft their son died in.

So, I agree, there are alot of gaps to be filled in but the bottom line is the plate number and 4949 on the inside.

cheers

Peter

Digger · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 6:00 am

Hi

I actually need to clarify a detail in the report I gave on 104949.

The book Protect and Avenge gives the account of the crash landing etc on flat country but the official US crash report does say:

[i]"While carrying out a mission in the Satelberg area, the engine began running rough, despite this the pilot located and strafed an enemy mortor position; the roughness increased to such an extent that a return was made mandatory. Engine oil pressure increased and the pilot was forced to crash land on a river bed
with the wheels up and the seitches (?) cut which completely demolished the plane. The aircraft is inaccessable for inspection"[/i]

That is taken straight out of the report so I guess Keith there are elements of both versions mixed in together. However it does confirm my previous findings about the aircraft covered in palm leaves not being 4949 as it is clearly in better condition than "completely demolished". Despite this I shall try to find the source of the PAA version to see if that clarifies anything, especially the part about being chased by enemy aircraft and the river bed etc.

Peter

Digger · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 6:53 am

Found it, from Protect and Avenge, page 208;

"The Warhawk squadrons were still fully engaged in the reduction of the enemy camps on the Huon Peninsula and the men at Maarilinan again had to rescue another stray Blacksheep on the 24th. Lt. Dan David had been hit by ground fire while strafing barges south of Madang and had nursed his holed P-40 all the way to the Watut Valley where the engine shut down. Just as squadron mate Thorvaldson had done seven weeks prior, [b]David attempted a belly landing on the Waffir River sandbar, but his plane cartwheeled and slammed down in heavy brush[/b]. Luckily, and L-5 liaison hack reached the flyer who had barely been able to crawl from the wreckage despite a severe back sprain.

So that explains a bit more

Peter

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