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 Post subject: Turbocharger Information
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:00 pm 
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To continue the Norden bombsight and link trainer threads, the following is a compilation of information about General Electric turbo(super)chargers.

Starting on page 1, the 20 June 1945 edition of the Index of Army-Navy Aeronautical Equipment for Turbosuperchargers and Regulators, Pumps, and Pump Accessories, T.O. 03-10-48, has a list of available turbochargers. A table on pages 6 and 6-1 compares their characteristics and identifying features:
Index of Army-Navy Aeronautical Equipment for Turbosuperchargers and Regulators, Pumps, and Pump Accessories wrote:
TABULATED AIR FORCE TYPES SHOWING TURBOSUPERCHARGER CHARACTERISTICS
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  Air Force Type       B-1       B-2       B-10*       B-11       B-13       B-22       B-31       B-33       C-1       C-21       C-23       CH-5        Air Force Type
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  Manufacturer       G.E.     G.E.-F.-A.C.     G.E.        G.E.       G.E.     G.E.-F.-A.C.      G.E.      G.E.-A.C.      G.E.       G.E.       G.E.       G.E.        Manufacturer
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Manufacturer's Detail                                WW-8456209                     WW-8467170                                                 Manufacturer's Detail
 Dwg. No. ϴ        W-84868583   W-4868827    WW-8456675    WW-8456210    W-8402004    WW-8456556   WW-8467070    WW-8456684    WW-6651554   WW-8464156    WW-8464868   WW-8467261    Dwg. No. ○
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Gear Reduction (Rotor                                                                                                                 Gear Reduction (Rotor
 to Tachometer)      9.5 to 1     9.5 to 1      9.5 to 1      9.5 to 1     9.5 to 1      9.5 to 1     9.5 to 1      9.5 to 1     5.25 to 1     5.25 to 1      5.25 to 1     5.25 to 1      to Tachometer)
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Air Force Detail                                                                                                                     Air Force Detail
 Specification       28502-1     28502-2     28502-10     28502-11     28502-13     28502-22      28502-31     28502-33     28503-1      28503-21     28503-23     28503-55       Specification
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Rated Altitude‡       25000 feet    25000 feet    25000 feet    30000 feet    25000 feet    30000 feet     30000 feet    30000 feet     25000 feet    25000 feet    27000 feet    35000 feet       Rated Altitude‡
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Design R.P.M.        21,300      21,300      21,300      24,000      21,300      24,000      24,000      24,000      18,250      18,250      20,000      20,000        Design R.P.M
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Weight, Approximately   132 Lbs.      135 Lbs.     135 Lbs.     145 Lbs.     135 Lbs.     135 Lbs.      145 Lbs.     135 Lbs.      235 Lbs.     235 Lbs.      245 Lbs.     255 Lbs.       Weight, Approximately
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Overall Dimensions,    15 x 26¼ x     15 x 26¼ x    15 x 26¼ x    15 x 25 x    15 x 26¼ x    15 x 26¼ x    15 x 26¼ x     18 x 26¼ x     18 x 26⅞ x    18 x 26⅞ x    18 5/16 x 27 x   28½ x 28 x       Overall Dimensions,
 Approximately      26½ inches     26½ inches   26½ inches    26⅝ inches   26½ inches    26½ inches    26½ inches     26½ inches    28½ inches    28½ inches    29⅜ inches    23½ inches        Approximately
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Oil Leads Diameter    ⅜" AC-811      ⅜" AC-811    ⅜" AC-811             ⅜" AC-811     ½" AC-811             ½" AC-811     ½" AC-811    ¾" AC-811    ¾" AC-811                Oil Leads Diameter
 and Type Fitting     Parker        Parker     Parker     ½" AN-816     Parker      Parker      ½" AN-816     Parker      Parker      Parker      Parker      ¾" AN-816        and Type Fitting
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Rerated          No        No        No       Yes        No        Yes        Yes        Yes        No       YesꝞ       Yes        No        Rerated
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Nozzle Box, Type      Scroll       Scroll      Scroll      Torus       Scroll       Scroll       Torus       Scroll      Torus       Torus      Torus       Torus        Nozzle Box, Type
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Cooling Shroud       None       None       None      Installed      None       None      Installed      None       None       None      Installed     Installed       Cooling Shroud
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Wastegate        Upstream                                                                      Upstream     Upstream    Upstream     Upstream      Wastegate
 Installation       exhaust      Nozzle box     Nozzle box    Nozzle box    Nozzle box    Nozzle box     ꝞꝞ      Nozzle box      exhaust      exhaust     exhaust      exhaust       Installation
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             Upstream     Straight and                                                          Upstream     Upstream     Upstream     Upstream
Wastegate Type      exhaust      Angle      Straight      Straight      Angle      Straight      ꝞꝞ       Angle       exhaust      exhaust      exhaust      exhaust       Wastegate Type
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             Regular       Regular     Redesigned    Regular     Redesigned     Regular     Regular     Redesigned     Regular      Regular      Regular      Split Phase
Diffuser         1000 h.p.      1000 h.p.     1400 h.p.     1000 h.p.    1100 h.p.      1000 h.p.    1000 h.p.    1100 h.p.     2000 h.p.      2000 h.p.     2000 h.p.     2100 h.p.      Diffuser   
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Oil Lines Position**     ●          ●          ●        ---        ●        ---        ---        ---        ---***       ---***       ---***       ---***      Oil Lines Position**
NOTE: ● = oil in      ---          ---         ---        ○●       ---        ●○        ○●        ○●        ○●        ○●        ○●        ○●       NOTE: ● = oil in
   ○ = oil out      ○          ○          ○        ---        ○        ---        ---        ---        ---        ---        ---        ---          ○ = oil out
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Air Force Setting                                                                                                                    Air Force Setting
 Numbers         7        2, 3, 4, 5, 6              1, 2, 3, 4      2, 3      4, 5, 6     1, 2, 5, 6      2, 3        1        1        1        1           Numbers
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Built-in Sealing Ring    None       None       None       Yes       None       None       YesꝞꝞ       None       None       None       Yes       Yes         Built-in Sealing Ring
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* The B-10 turbosupercharger is supplied to the British and there is no A. E. Ref. No. for this item.                                             FORTHCOMING TECHNICAL INSTRUCTIONS ON TYPE B-11
** The ● indicates oil lines (in and out) are one over the other in relationship. The ○● indicates the oil lines are side by side and lay flush with the baffle plate.     The following represents a list of changes to be incorporated on the present Army Air Force Type B-11 turbosupercharger.
    ○ (This relationship is true when the bucket wheel is in the down position as on a stand in a depot.)                          Under no circumstances is the following to be used as a guide in making these changes without reference to proper technical instruc-
*** On the type C turbosupercharger the oil ducts are cast as part of the pump and bearing housing.                              tions issued by the General Electric Company.
‡ The rated altitude for each type turbosupercharger varies as per the prescribed installation on the aircraft. This is due primarily to different engines of       a. All bucket wheels which have dovetail buckets will be replaced by wheels having welded buckets.
 equal horsepower requiring different manifold pressures, necessitated by differences in compression ratios. Another variation is different efficiencies in ducting.   b. New sealing rings will be installed to incorporate the new type in production on the B-31 turbosupercharger.
ϴ All manufacturers of turbosuperchargers use General Electric drawing numbers.                                       c. Anti-twist clamps will be used to secure the oil lines.
Ꝟ The C-21 is re-rated but the cooling and lubrication systems are not designed to allow its use at the higher speeds of the C-23; it is improved over the C-1 in     d. The coil spring insert will be installed on the (oil in) line to prevent collapsing. (This insert should also be used on B-22
 that it has a re-rated wheel and larger oil leads.                                                       and B-33.)
ꝞꝞ The B-31 turbosupercharger supersedes type B-11 and is interchangeable with it functionally and dimensionally except for the following:
   a. The B-31 has an improved sealing ring which overcomes the service difficulties of the B-11 in regard to its sealing ring breaking                              OUTLINE OF PROCEDURE TO CHANGE SETTINGS:
    loose and rubbing against the bucket wheel.                                                     1. Remove nozzle box support bracket.          6. Remove nuts from front compressor casing studs.
   b. Settings 2 and 5 of the B-31 have a rigid tachometer shaft extending through the cooling shroud. When two turbosuperchargers               2. Remove air-cooling shroud if it is installed.        7. Remove front compressor casing.
    are used in parallel in the same nacelle only one of the tachometer connections is required for driving the control elements of the              3. Remove bolts around compressor casing flange.      8. Remove bolts holding nozzle box to pump casing arms.
    turbosupercharger regulator.                                                            4. Remove rear compressor casing.            9. Remove bolts holding nozzle box to baffle ring.
   c. Settings 5 and 6 of the B-31 have the wastegate removed and replaced with a plate covering off the port. The wastegate instal-               5. Remove impeller, and install fiber sleeve in its place.   10. Rotate parts to desired angular positions and reassemble.
    lation on these two models is upstream in the exhaust stack (only used on B-32 airplane.)
  NOTE: Setting 1 and 2 of the B-31 have the same relationship of openings as setting 1 and 2 of Type B-11.

                           ABBREVIATIONS:
  G.E.-General Electric Co.      F.-Ford Motor Co.      A.C.-Allis-Chalmers

(Source: Index of Army-Navy Aeronautical Equipment for Turbosuperchargers and Regulators, Pumps, and Pump Accessories, T.O. 03-10–48, 1945, 6-6-1.)

Graham White wrote:
The alphanumeric designations of GE turbosuperchargers are as follows:
"B" or "C" represents the series of GE turbos and indicates the horsepower it is capable of handling. A "B" is rated at 1,000 hp and a "C" is rated at 1,500 hp.
"H" indicates that this turbo is intended for high altitude operation, which in fact all R-4360 turbos were.
"M" means that the turbo has multiple compressor stages, i.e., two stages of compression.
The number indicates the level of development.

(Source: Graham White, R-4360: Pratt & Whitney’s Major Miracle (North Branch, MN: Speciality Press Publishers, 2006), 174.)

Minneapolis-Honeywell Regulator Company wrote:
 At the present time, the General Electric Company
produces four types of Turbo Superchargers for ser-
vice in airplanes. The engine horsepower range for
which each type is designed and its maximum safe
rotor speed are as follows:
 Type A - 500 to 800 H.P. - 25,000 R.P.M.
 Type B - 800 to 1400 H.P. - 21,300 R.P.M.
    (Improved Construction Permits
     24,000 R.P.M. Continuous or
     26,400 R.P.M. 5 min. Duration)
 Type C - 1800 to 2200 H.P. - 17,000 R.P.M.
 Type D - 1400 to 1800 H.P. - 19,700 R.P.M.

(Source: Familiarization Manual for the Minneapolis-Honeywell Electronic Turbo Supercharger Control System (Minneapolis, Minnesota: Aeronautical Division, Minneapolis-Honeywell Regulator Company, n.d.), 4.)

Turbocharger Models by Aircraft
  • Production
    • B-17E and B-17F - B-2[1][2]
    • B-17G - B-2 or B-22[3]
    • B-24D, E, G and H - B-2 or B-22[4][5]
    • B-24J and M - B-22[5]
    • B-24N - B-31[5]
    • B-29 and B-29A - B-11 or B-31[5][6]
    • B-32 - B-31[5]
    • B-36 - BH-1[White]
    • B-50 - CH-7A1 or CH-7B1[White]
    • C-87 - B-2 or B-22[5]
    • C-97 - 7SBH-4B1, CH-7A1 or CH-7B1[White]
    • F-5E - B-13 or B-33[5]
    • F-7A and F-7B - B-2 or B-22[5]
    • FG-3 - Unknown
    • P-38E, F and G - B-2 or B-22[5]
    • P-38H, J and L - B-13 or B-33[7][5]
    • P-47B through D-3 - C-1[8]
    • P-47D-5 through D-6 - C-21[8]
    • P-47D-10 and subsequent - C-23[8]
    • P-47G - C-1 or C-21[5]
    • P-47M - CH-5A1[9]
    • P-47N - CH-5A1 or CH-5B1[9]
    • P-61C - CH-5-A3[10]
  • Prototypes
    • XB-28 - Type C[11]
    • XB-32 - B-11[11]
    • XB-33 - C-2 or Type CMC[11]
    • XB-35 - BH-1 or Type EM[12][11]
    • XB-39 - CM-2A1 or CH-5[11]
    • XF4U-3 - Unknown
    • XF6F-2 - Unknown
    • XF-11 - BH-1[12]
    • XF-12 - Unknown
    • YP-37 - Unknown
    • XP-39 - Unknown
    • XP-49 - B-10[11]
    • XP-54 - Type B or Type CM[11]
    • XP-58 - E-2[11]
    • XP-60A - B-14[11]
    • XP-62 - E-2 or Type CM[11]
    • XP-67 - D-2 or D-23[11]
    • XP-69 - Type CM[11]
    • XP-71 - Type EM or E-2[11]
    • XP-72 - Type EM[11]
    • R6O/R6V - BH-3 or GT15-2[White]

Identification Features
  • Cooling Shroud: Installed/None
    • A band of metal wrapped around the area between the nozzle box and compressor casing.
  • Nozzle Box Type: Scroll/Torus
    • A scroll type nozzle box is asymmetrical, while a torus type is not.
  • Wastegate Type: Straight/Angle/Upstream Exhaust
    • An upstream exhaust exits through the center of the of the device and, as such, will only have one rather than two openings on the nozzle box.

Attachment:
Index of Army-Navy Aeronautical Equipment for Turbosuperchargers and Regulators, Pumps, and Pump Accessories, 20 June 1945, Page 2.png


Attachment:
Index of Army-Navy Aeronautical Equipment for Turbosuperchargers and Regulators, Pumps, and Pump Accessories, 20 June 1945, Page 3.png


(Source: Index of Army-Navy Aeronautical Equipment for Turbosuperchargers and Regulators, Pumps, and Pump Accessories, T.O. 03-10–48, 1945, 2-3.)

A few notes:
  • It may be the General Electric designation sequence functions like that of Stearman and B-22 should be read as "B-2-2" or the second modification of the B-2.
  • Inclusion of the word "Type" in the turbocharger models by aircraft list indicates that the model number was not known.
  • The source listed as "[White]" is Graham White, R-4360: Pratt & Whitney’s Major Miracle (North Branch, MN: Speciality Press Publishers, 2006), 174.
  • Another useful reference is a Turbosupercharger Field Service Manual.

EDIT (25-02-21): Added XF-11 and XF-12 entries; changed P-47M/N and XB-35 entries; added excerpt from familiarization manual about horsepower and rotor speeds of types.

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Last edited by Noha307 on Fri Feb 21, 2025 1:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2025 9:45 am 
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Very interesting. Thank you for posting this information. My only experience with large turbos is with B-17s. We had very few problems with them, but we weren’t flying at high power settings at high altitude trying to maintain formation with other aircraft while dodging flak and fighters.

I did fly several thousand hours in DC-7s equipped with Power Recovery Turbines. Similar, but a completely different drive from the engine. We occasionally had an PRT oil seal failure that could drain the entire engine oil supply in a few minutes, so it was a good idea to pay attention. Not easy because the engines were located well behind the flight deck. Including the oil quantity gauges in a scan of instruments helped.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2025 9:46 am 
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Very interesting. Thank you for posting this information. My only experience with large turbos is with B-17s. We had very few problems with them, but we weren’t flying at high power settings at high altitude trying to maintain formation with other aircraft while dodging flak and fighters.

I did fly several thousand hours in DC-7s equipped with Power Recovery Turbines. Similar, but a completely different drive to the engine. We occasionally had an PRT oil seal failure that could drain the entire engine oil supply in a few minutes, so it was a good idea to pay attention. Not easy because the engines were located well behind the flight deck. Including the oil quantity gauges in a scan of instruments helped.

Sorry about the double post. This was supposed to be a correction stating a different drive to the engine rather than from the engine, which is more accurate.

ImageIMG_5713 by tanker622001, on Flickr

ImageIMG_5714 by tanker622001, on Flickr


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2025 8:20 pm 
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To go further on the PRT's https://youtu.be/gbMgwDIdScY?si=Fe1Ye1lgNLpFnmbD He does a pretty good job of explaining how they work. Also another you tube video is by Aircraft Engine history as well https://youtu.be/1j9164wb6TE?si=5ZXQjNbb9XfC3iU5


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 1:17 pm 
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Some Thoughts on Understanding the Operation of a Turbocharger

What initially made comprehending a turbocharger difficult for me - and I imagine at least a few other people - is the way it appears to be a perpetual motion machine. To put it another way, it seems to be a chicken and egg situation, where it needs A (exhaust gasses) to generate B (compressed air), but also B to generate A. This doesn't make intuitive sense. How can a device power itself?

Now, I know at this point everyone is going to want to chime in with an explanation. However, that is not exactly the point of this post. I mention this because, while I have long since understood it, it might help explain why the average person may struggle to understand the way it works at first. I don't hide the fact that I am neither a pilot nor a mechanic and did not come into aviation through either of those means. As a result, there are sometimes concepts I encounter that the average aviator takes for granted. The flip side of this is that I come at the subject the same way a visitor to a museum would and so I can put myself in their shoes when considering how to approach a subject.

Indeed, the reason this topic came to mind is that I re-encountered it while attempting to write a label explaining the sequence of events by which a turbocharger operates. Specifically, the issue was where to begin the narrative. There are two options: with the intake of atmospheric air or with the intake of exhaust gasses? In other words, with the source of power for, or the results of, the turbocharger's work. In the end, I went with the latter, but it is equally possible to start with the former.

Furthermore, this is not the limit of this circular power problem in aviation either as the situation is the same with jet engines (the turbine powers the compressor and the compressor supplies compressed air for the turbine) and, to a certain extent, even the electrical system which runs a piston aircraft engine (the engine powers the magneto and the magneto provides spark for the engine). Again, both of these took a while for me to understand.

So, I went a bit off topic with this post and I'm not exactly sure how to end it. However, in an attempt to give it one I'll close with this: it is always worth considering that what may be obvious to someone who has been in the industry for a while is not always so clear to those on the outside.

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