Warbird Information Exchange

Looks like the cat is out of the bag and the Collings Foundation is moving towards a mostly static museum with a few flyable aircraft. Sad day as the B-24 will probably never fly again. Which leaves us with just the CAF example. Which they've stated they won't fly into any airfield that isn't like 4000 ft long! Collings had no trouble getting in and out of KBDR over the years with the J. As I suspected, they are looking into creating another building / museum. The question is, where?

2023 Newsletter. https://issuu.com/collingsfoundation/docs/2023cfnewsltrr_highres?fr=xKAE9_zU1NQ&fbclid=IwAR2-X9ho-E_9sLyYJMzow_SYDJXv0GkgkOWp9b5ccuQMogw3zlaSxhvyhLc

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Keep Em' Flying,
Christopher Soltis
Dedicated to the preservation and education of The Sikorsky Memorial Airport

CASC Blog Page: http://ctair-space.blogspot.com/
Warbird Wear: https://www.redbubble.com/people/warbirdwear/shop

Chicks Dig Warbirds.......right?

Sad, but not unexpected given the long-term consequences of the crash. Regarding location, the newsletter states that everything will be at Collings HQ at the AHM facility. From the newsletter:

"Displayed in a single location, they will arguably form the best collection of aircraft from all branches of the US armed forces."

There is lots of room on the Collings compound, so there should be plenty of space to build several more hangars/buildings. BTW, if anyone hasn't been to the "American Heritage Museum" at Stow, I highly recommend it. It is a world-class facility that is probably the best, most modern and high tech W.W.II Museum/facility in the world. It's one of my favorites and I look forward to seeing the expansion hangars/buildings where they will house the entire Collings aircraft collection.

The thing that is sad is the grass strip on the compound is kinda short and can't really sustain any warbird operations other than perhaps light, single-engine aircraft, maybe a few Navy carrier birds with large flaps - Wildcat, Hellcat, etc. IIRC, it's only a few thousand feet long, so any ferry flights to bring in the bombers for the new buildings will inevitably be a one-way trip with no ability to fly out. That would indeed make the move "permanent".

BTW, they could bring back the "Wings of Freedom" tour, but at what cost? All it takes is a whole lot of money. Rob and Bob are very savvy businessmen, so I'm guessing they've already costed this out and determined the cost would exceed their resources or the potential profits from a tour rebirth. Sadly, it sounds like they've decided it's not worth the cost.

Looks like they could probably get 3000' feet total out of the runway if they expanded to the south a bit. 3600" if they were able to build out to what looks like a small island in a marshy bog area. But I've heard that there is no chance of zoning approving a runway expansion and marsh land area being filled in. So my next guess would be that the building would be added onto the existing AHM building, where they currently have the tank track course. I originally had thought that the current museum was just the first version and that with an expanded building the entire exhibit of tanks and planes would be "Stretched" longer to be able to increase each campaign / era so that more planes / vehicles could be added. Time will tell I suppose.

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Keep Em' Flying,
Christopher Soltis
Dedicated to the preservation and education of The Sikorsky Memorial Airport

CASC Blog Page: http://ctair-space.blogspot.com/
Warbird Wear: https://www.redbubble.com/people/warbirdwear/shop

Chicks Dig Warbirds.......right?

Like many, I've suspected this was on the horizon, but I was hoping it wouldn't come to pass. I'm curious what happens to American Aero Services. Wasn't most of their workload maintaining and restoring Collings aircraft? When I visited, I only saw a small number of aircraft that weren't owned by CF.

American Aero will do just fine. Gary has turned away work because he so much. Few shops around with his capabilities.

I had a feeling it would come to this and though I'm not at all surprised, the finality of the news still hurts. I had hoped they'd do static displays and airshows with the B-24 and some of the fighters, but they've obviously decided that isn't a viable option.

I've had a lot of great memories thanks to Collings Foundation and the Wings of Freedom tour. My only flight in a B-17 came in "Nine-O-Nine," arranged by another WIX member. It was absolutely unforgettable and I will cherish that memory forever. The first time I saw a B-24 in flight was "All-American" thundering over my aunt's house in Muskegon the day before the annual airshow. I was probably nine years old then. Lots of other great moments at airshows and tour stops over the years.

While it's disappointing that we likely won't see any of these aircraft in the air again, public static display isn't the worst outcome. It will be a premier museum and one that I will visit someday. I would imagine that the large aircraft will be trucked in rather than flown given the length of the runway.

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Matt

As a Plane Sponsor with Collings I had the honor and privelege of getting to fly with Collings for 10 years. My last flight was August 2019 aboard the B-24. I knew Mac who was the pilot for the B-17. I won't go any further than that regarding Mac. I also am saddened as it gave thousands of people the chance to see what these aircraft looked like on the inside, or you could buy a flight in one. Everytime I flew with Collings it gave me a glimpse into the past 80 years ago.
I have the utmost respect for the guys who flew and were flying into harms way for the freedom we now have. Collings is entitled to go in another direction. From talking to some of the key players in the Collings organization they are doing well with the museum and tank rides etc. The museum is a world class museum was there in October 2021. I along with thousands of others will remember the DVD's and photo's of the time I had flying with Collings.
There are others who may chime in on this I know Jim Harley who was Chief Pilot at one time could and still may write a book about all the things he did while with Collings. Jim if you ever write that book I want a copy.

Okay, let's look at it as a glass half full.
With their resources to create meaningful displays...like the Vietnam POW voices and Holocaust boxcar...combined with their aircraft, armour...which is a neat combination...not often seen in the U.S. (but you can see both at Duxford) combined with their autos, it will be a first class destination.

(And if a student of WWII wants a complete experience, they could visit the wartime ships on display at "Battleship Cove" in Fall River.)

Of course the downside is by being static, they will lose the "outreach" afforded by touring. After all, giving people around the country to experience a "live" aircraft is a huge deal.

Luckily, there are many other active warbirds (minus the Liberator) to accomplish the outreach mission.

My only concern is that costs, safety concerns (and the long term fuel/environmental issues) which led Collings to make this decision might signal the end of other tours with large passenger carrying warbirds.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

I did enjoy catching up with the tours over the past 30+ years. The "end of an era" is apt. Not just for Collings. Their former activities were part of a type of warbird operations that I'm afraid is now behind us.

Stow will become a destination, for sure. Not convinced it is yet. I understand most of the flyable assets are at a local airport where they can actually be operated. I am in Massachusetts fairly often. so I'll be waiting for word that most of the collection is actually together and on view in Stow before dropping by, likely a few years from now. One hopes they will have engine run days even for the aircraft that cannot be operated off that strip.

If future projects are to be restored to airworthy, I wonder if we will continue to see them at Oshkosh to collect some trophies on their way home from the resto shop. That's something we seem to be seeing with a lot of the marquee restorations at Oshkosh in recent years. Airventure is not only their debut, but pretty much also the last and only chance to see them in motion.

August

Truly an end of an era, indeed. I attended the W.o.F. Tour every year when it came here to Moffett Field (where they always had long lines of people waiting to tour the planes), but I also took an unforgettable ride in Nine O Nine, getting to roam around it from nose to tail (well, to the aft gunners compartment...) during the flight.

But best yet, I never needed to put it on my calendar, because my house is directly under the path they would use for their flights here, so every year they announced their arrival by the drone of all those engines, and I could watch them fly right overhead, with the naked eye, over and over again, and really get a sense of what it must have been like when they were a common sight.

I am not surprised either. I am glad they did not gloss over the accident and the loss of those involved in the newsletter- it truly did send shock waves through the entire community and the Foundation.

Sort of saw this coming when they sold their 2 place P-40, and as I understand, their TF-51. I rode in Nine 0 Nine several years ago and it was a great experience. The year before the accident, I rode in the B-24. That was an entirely different experience. The young man who was assigned to the flight was extremely rude and acted like he did not want to be there. I was seated in the rear section, next to the waist guns. He told us, I think there were 5, to not stand up until he came back from the front of the aircraft and told us it was all right to stand. Well, 10 minutes went by (I think it was a 25 minute flight) and he had not come back. We were at altitude by then. We all decided to stand up and enjoy the last half of the flight. When we were nearing landing, he came back and stayed with us, making some kind of rude remark about staying with us because we were not able to follow directions. Besides that, it was a great flight in a piece of history that I will remember always. I am sad that others won't be able to experience the same. I would hope that they would keep the B-24 airworthy for shows, Oshkosh, or sell it and their other B-17 to someone that will.

I have to admit, we have plenty of static B-24 aircraft in a variety of states of preservation. From Strawberry B--ch at NMUSAF, which was stored in Arizona and then flown to Dayton, to the Pima, Canadian, and English examples that are ex-IAF, to Kermit's that is basically an IAF time capsule, to the Louisiana example (that needs to come inside) and a couple of others that are basically shells. I for one hope that if Collings is going to stop flying the B-24 for good that they consider selling it to an organization that might keep it in the air. It seems like a colossal waste of resources for that airplane, which was restored to flight and then has been maintained for flight, to go sit while the available examples that could someday be returned to flight are few and far between.
I suspect that won't happen, but it has been neat to have both an early and a late example of the B-24 design available for folks to see in the air.
kevin

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FOUND the elusive DT-built B-24! Woo-hoo!!!

The writing has been on the wall for a while, from Reno to Collings. If you've ever wanted to take a ride in a warbird, you better do it sooner than later. Like other people have said. Not too many other organizations would want to, or could afford to operate heavy bombers..

Phil

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A man's got to know his limitations.

It was at Moffett Field back in spring of 2007 where I met up with JimH and the Bomber Tour and got to have my ear drums blasted by a flight in the B-25 as well as a flight in the B-17.

I also agree that it would be a crying shame if the wonderful B-24 never flys again, even for airshows, if not experience flights. I had always hoped to catch up with the tour at Moffett at some point in the future when visiting friends in the area, and to complete the trio and fly in the 24, but that will now never happen of course.
I remember seeing the B-24 being restored at Tom Reilly's during a visit there back in 1989.