Ordnance disposal team unearths eight Hurricanes in Ukraine

[DoraNineFan]

Unexploded ordnance teams have found the buried remains of eight scrapped Hurricanes near Kiev and they are working to identify them. The National Aviation Museum of Ukraine is performing another dig.

BBC Story: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65955365

[TAdan]

Wow, what an exciting find. I look forward to seeing more photos of what has been unearthed.

[old iron]

Maybe there is enough there to constitute a complete-enough Hurricane to be donated to the Polish Aviation Museum (in Krakow) for restoration and display, to acknowledge the considerable contributions that Poland has made to Ukraine in this war.

[JohnTerrell]

One of the individuals involved with the excavation work has mentioned on social media that it is one of two main locations in Ukraine known to have been the site of aircraft scrapping after the war. In addition to the Hawker Hurricane sections, they've also recovered various parts confirmed to be from the P-39, P-40, P-47, A-20, B-25, Spitfire, and some German types.

[Xray]

We'll see, I'm thinking more like, pile of scrap in, pile of even worse scrap out

[lmritger]

We'll see, I'm thinking more like, pile of scrap in, pile of even worse scrap out

Fair, but thinking specifically of the rumored German stuff, even "worse scrap" can serve as a pattern. I very much look forward to more news on this!

Lynn

[Xray]

We'll see, I'm thinking more like, pile of scrap in, pile of even worse scrap out

Fair, but thinking specifically of the rumored German stuff, even "worse scrap" can serve as a pattern. I very much look forward to more news on this!

Lynn

Obviously an interesting find for any aviation military history enthusiast, I don't want to sound like a negative Nancy but I think anyone expecting a restored museum piece out of this is bound to be disappointed. Any scraps are better than none, even rusted out 80 year old scrap.

I could be wrong but its hard to see Stalin worried about paying the USA back for loaned equipment after the war and was doing what he had to do just to get rid of it and avoid paying. I have heard of British Corsairs being pushed into the ocean for this reason, I'm sure there are many documented examples and the USA itself obviously scrapped masses of surplus equipment at wars end. My point is, I suspect these were scrapped because, well, they were scrap and could serve Soviet interests no longer.

[dhfan]

It's nothing to do with Stalin worried about paying the U.S.

We had exactly the same circumstances with Lend-Lease materiel here. The options were pay for it or destroy it. I think another option may have been return it, but you didn't particularly want most of it back anyway.

If the Russians had kept them they'd have had to pay for them, and being Hurricanes they were obsolete anyway.

[Dan Jones]

We'll see, I'm thinking more like, pile of scrap in, pile of even worse scrap out

Fair, but thinking specifically of the rumored German stuff, even "worse scrap" can serve as a pattern. I very much look forward to more news on this!

Lynn

It's provenance. There wasn't much useful material dug out of the beach in Dunkirk either, but there's a beautiful Spitfire Mk1 and Messerschmitt 109E flying today born of that "junk".

[JohnB]

It's provenance. There wasn't much useful material dug out of the beach in Dunkirk either, but there's a beautiful Spitfire Mk1 and Messerschmitt 109E flying today born of that "junk".

Remember, there is a vocal group here who are very dismissive of "Data Plate" restorations.
They seem to think nothing is better than something with new metal.
I get the general (very general) theory. If I'm at a museum, I want the Roman coin or renaissance artwork be real.

But I've been around aircraft all my life, I'm pragmatic enough to accept that I'd rather see a "new build" Mustang/Spitfire/109 fly than not at all.

[marine air]

Don't think there is quite the same demand for the Hurricane as the Spitfire, Mustang and Corsair but it is close. An investor loves for the airframe to have some loose provenance and will pay for it. I think there is a day coming soon where there aren't any more P-51B/C dataplates to use for the basis for a restoration. Bet there are more TF-51D's now than Temco built or survived military use. Eventually they'll run out of Spitfire, P-51D and other dataplates.
It seems that when they attach a dataplate they also go to the effort of finding some original items and parts to go in it.

[Firebird]

Don't think there is quite the same demand for the Hurricane as the Spitfire, Mustang and Corsair but it is close. An investor loves for the airframe to have some loose provenance and will pay for it. I think there is a day coming soon where there aren't any more P-51B/C dataplates to use for the basis for a restoration. Bet there are more TF-51D's now than Temco built or survived military use. Eventually they'll run out of Spitfire, P-51D and other dataplates.
It seems that when they attach a dataplate they also go to the effort of finding some original items and parts to go in it.

Hawker Restorations are currently doing their 9th Hurricane, and this one is certainly what would be described as a data plate restoration, which is bits dug up from the crash site of a Hurricane lost during the Battle of Britain, which was last flown on that sortie by the pilot who has now become the very last surviving member of The Few.

https://www.key.aero/article/exclusive-how-last-fews-hurricane-will-fly-again

[RyanShort1]

We'll see, I'm thinking more like, pile of scrap in, pile of even worse scrap out

Fair, but thinking specifically of the rumored German stuff, even "worse scrap" can serve as a pattern. I very much look forward to more news on this!

Lynn

It's provenance. There wasn't much useful material dug out of the beach in Dunkirk either, but there's a beautiful Spitfire Mk1 and Messerschmitt 109E flying today born of that "junk".

It's not just provenance. It's "rules" - sometimes it's useful to find an airframe that the FAA or other government agency doesn't have a record of as being "destroyed" which in turn allows for it's being rebuilt.

[Mark Allen M]

Remember, there is a vocal group here who are very dismissive of "Data Plate" restorations.
They seem to think nothing is better than something with new metal.

Not quite!, not even close!. There’s NO vocal group here on WIX who are very dismissive of anything warbird related. And NO ONE here believes nothing is better than new. There’s a few of us who have a different opinion on what constitutes a new build vs restoration. And so be it! but no one is demanding what an owner should or shouldn’t label their property or chastising what’s built new or not.

Don’t over exaggerate other people’s opinions. No warbird owner cares, nor should they, the opinions of internet jockeys!.

[DB2]

It's not just provenance. It's "rules" - sometimes it's useful to find an airframe that the FAA or other government agency doesn't have a record of as being "destroyed" which in turn allows for it's being rebuilt.

I believe in the UK only aircraft under 2000 kg in weight can be classified as "amatuer-built" or "experimental" - otherwise the aircraft must have originally been built by an "approved" manufacturer. But with a legit data plate and serial number, you can still "(re)build" what is really a replica.